Talk:Justin Bieber

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Former good article nominee Justin Bieber was a Music good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
Date Process Result
May 10, 2014 Good article nominee Not listed
May 28, 2014 Peer review Not reviewed
Current status: Former good article nominee
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"Legal Issues" coverage query

[1] shows a substantial addition to the already over-long "Legal issues" section, and is primarily aimed at citing folks who say he is now a "bad boy". Is this addition which seems to be remarkably un-encyclopedic, properly here? Collect (talk) 13:55, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

  • It's two sentences, are you protesting against the five substantial references? One and a half of the two sentences (except the 2014's most annoying celebrity half-sentence which I added recently) have been in the article for months [2] [3] in the Public image section, as they should be. You made the bold edit to remove them hours ago. In spite of "bad boy" being his public image as per the WP:RS, you claim that [4] legal issues belong in one section or the other. I accommodated by moving them to the Legal issues section and you still protest. WP:UNENCYC? starship.paint ~ ¡Olé! 14:18, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
    • I object to silly citation overkill where the apparent result is inclusion of quotes which would not pass the requirements of WP:BLP as being statements of objective fact in reliable sources. "Bad boy" is, as far as I can tell an "opinion" and not an "objective fact" but apparently your mileage varies about the definition of "fact" if you find "bad boy" to be "fact." And longevity of a sentence in a BLP is not presumptive proof that it is not a violation of WP:BLP -- many BLPs are veritable Petri dishes of rumour and allegation. Collect (talk) 21:43, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Bieber is a bad boy (opinion)
  • Bieber has the public image of being a "bad boy" (fact, supported by RS)
I actually think with the new statements adding better sources like Mickey Huff (Media Freedom Foundation); Andy Lee Roth (Project Censored) (2014). Censored 2015: Inspiring We the People; The Top Censored Stories and Media Analysis of 2013- 2014. Seven Stories Press. p. 87. ISBN 978-1-60980-566-1.  we could cut out alot of the old stuff from the section....since we have sources that cover the past in overview anyways. We have no need for sources that only cover one event now. Time to trim the fluff like the source above...time to consolidate. -- Moxy (talk) 02:58, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
  • I don't own the book, and I can't read it online, it's (yet) unverifiable that it even has information on Bieber (unless you can show me how). Here are some free online sources detailing Bieber's entire 2014, instead of an immediate reaction article to an event. Ottawa Sun, (already in article), Global News, City News. starship.paint ~ ¡Olé! 03:11, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
Lets forget the news link if we can and add real books on the overall topic.,,,since we have experts now tlaking about the matter. Can you see the book above here at the .com version (I can quote it if need be - that could be added to the source for all to see). There is also Karen Sternheimer ( University of Southern California) (2014). Celebrity Culture and the American Dream: Stardom and Social Mobility. Taylor & Francis. p. 333. ISBN 978-1-317-68967-6. ...can people see that? -- Moxy (talk) 03:23, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
  • I can see the book cover, yes, but I can't read a single word of Censored 2015. I can read parts of Celebrity Culture, it mentions Bieber's speeding or racially insensitive remarks / numerous reports of speeding, drug use, promiscuity, and even videos where he tells racist jokes and sings about joining the Ku Klux Klan. I tried to archive the version I saw using archive.org here, perhaps you could do that with Censored 2015, Moxy? starship.paint ~ ¡Olé! 03:30, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
Can you see this hosted image? - attribution Mickey Huff, Andy Lee Roth, Censored 2015 p87. I also did the same for Celebrity Culture Karen Sternheime p. 333. We could trim the section of most fluff in the article and add quotes of these pages to our |quote parameter in the refs.-- Moxy (talk) 03:54, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Hahaha, did you search for "Bad Boy Bieber" in Google Books to find these books? Yes, I can see both pictures, thank you, although I don't need to see the second. But surely that's not the end of the coverage of Bieber in Censored 2015? There's got to be more, methinks. If you would be so kind... (still recommend you try archive.org) starship.paint ~ ¡Olé! 04:20, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
LOL I did search Bad Boy for the first book. But saw someone else use the Sternheime for another page a few days ago and read a bit of it and saw this. The archive.org page you linked for me I dont see..so I did the above to make sure all could see. Not much more is said about the "Bad boy"in Censored 2015 ...some passing mention of drunken antics getting news coverage but no specifics. -- Moxy (talk) 04:30, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
@Moxy: - my issues with the books -> firstly they are not Bieber biographies, but books on the media as a subject. secondly, on the coverage of the issues, Celebrity Culture - it was published on 20 November 2014. There might have been a few months of editing process, because the most recent Bieber incident it mentioned was the June 2014 racist comments. We have no idea if the July-November incidents were omitted if they were unimportant or if the authors were already done with the writing process by July. According to Barnes & Noble, Censored 2014 was published on 21 October 2014, the latest incident it mentioned in the timeline was the White House deportation petition which was held from January to April 2014 (but it hit 100,000 in January) starship.paint ~ ¡Olé! 05:22, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
News links make articles look bad and unprofessional. Best to use them only when need be....no need to be so up-to-date we are not a news paper WP:NOT#JOURNALISM. Better to get it right rather then link speculation. -- Moxy (talk) 12:12, 3 January 2015 (UTC)