Talk:Kabyle language

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- S. Chaker : Berberes aujourd'hui, Paris, L'Harmattan, 1998 ;
- S. Chaker : Une décennie d'études berberes (1980-1990) ;
- G. Camps : Berberes. Aux marges de l'Histoire, Toulouse, Editions des Hesperides, 1980 ;
- (Pierre Bourdieu : Sociologie de l'Algérie, PUF, 1958).
- "wiki fr de" and google :)

(est.):

Untitled[edit]

Algeria
Kabylie : 4.5 million
Algiers : 50-70% so ~ 1 million
others : ~ 500,000 (annaba, constantine, setif,...)

France : ~1,0 million (immigration since 1900')

and Canada, US, Belgium, Netherlands
and Liban, Palestinne, Syrie (since 1870'-1880 "révolte des Mokranis" - during french colonisation) : 50-100,000

- Yacine O., Annaba, Algeria. 5 june.

Ethnologue profile for Kabyle:
Population
2,537,000 in Algeria (1995). Estimates by some sources are up to 6,000,000 in Algeria (1998). 49,000 in Belgium. Population total all countries: 3,123,000.
I'm reverting back. —Khoikhoi 18:38, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
I think we should give a range rather than one number or the other. —Khoikhoi 18:40, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Map[edit]

Image:Kabyle-speaking-map.jpg is rubbish. It:

  • includes Algiers, which does not have a Kabyle-speaking majority;
  • includes Boumerdes, which does not have a Kabyle-speaking majority;
  • includes Dellys, which does not have a Kabyle-speaking majority (though the first Kabyle-speaking villages on the coast west of Algiers start almost immediately west of Dellys);
  • includes Jijel, which is not Kabyle-speaking at all (though their dialect of Arabic is heavily Kabyle-influenced, and Jijel might be considered "ethnically" Kabyle, whatever that would mean);
  • includes the Chenoua language, which (despite its location) is more similar to Chaouia than to Kabyle;
  • includes the town of Cherchell, which (unlike the villages around it) speaks Arabic;
  • is completely unsourced.

Please keep this piece of unsuccessful guesswork out of Wikipedia, and use the academically sourced map Image:Kabyle-map.jpg until such time as someone produces something larger-scale and at least equally well-sourced. - Mustafaa 19:55, 17 June 2006 (UTC)


(sorry I speak badly english)
It is not a map of Kabylie (or of the kabyle' wilaya) but a map showing areas where Kabyle is spoken
Kabyle is spoken in Algiers, Cherchell or Boumerdes, north of wilaya Setif, ect...
in Algiers, more 50% of population are kabyle (and speak kabyle and arabic dialect), and this is the same for Boumerdes, Jilel, Setif, ect.. and in Cherchell there are a big immigration of kabyle who speak kabyle (a famous example is Baaziz, a singer).
It is not a story of majority because or else we can say arabic (because it's official language) is spoken in Tizi Ouzou, Bouira and in Bejaia so even your map is rubish.

anyway, in any case your map is nonsense, because he show just the border of the wilaya of Tizi, Bouira and Bejaia but no "where Kabyle is spoken".

-source of map: you can see that for example on: aricle of the reliable newspapers L'Expresse] (L'Expresse)

  • A map showing anywhere that anybody spoke Kabyle would have to cover the whole of Europe - London, Quebec, Paris, Marseille, not to mention Oran or Saudi Arabia. What the map has to show is areas where a majority speak Kabyle.
  • Your claims are incorrect. Kabyle is spoken by much less than 50% in Algiers, Boumerdes, and Jijel, let alone Cherchell.
  • My map does not have any connection to wilaya boundaries. For example, it excludes Dellys and Boumerdes but includes Thenia and Bordj Menaiel, though all are in Boumerdes.
  • The L'Expresse map shows a very poor rendition of Kabylie, not where Kabyle is spoken, and even it disagrees with your map. Nor is L'Expresse an academically reliable source: it doesnt even explain who produced the map, nor on what data it is based. - Mustafaa 18:41, 19 June 2006 (UTC)


Mustafaa, tu parles français? (do you speak french?)


For the record, I support keeping Mustafaa's well-sourced map rather than the newer one, which indeed seems inaccurate. — mark 06:40, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I've put together a new, much more detailed map based on Basset 1936 (see Image:Kabyle.gif for full bibliographic details.) Input welcomed... - Mustafaa 11:44, 22 June 2006 (UTC)


Please, Mustafaa do you speak french?

Oui, malgre que je ne l'utilise pas beaucoup. Pourquoi? - Mustafaa 14:57, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

La nouvelle carte que j'y ai placé est fondée sur la carte très détaillé d'André Basset, Atlas Linguistique des Parlers Berbères: Algérie - Territoires du Nord, Université d'Alger, Institut des Etudes Orientales 1936. - Mustafaa 15:06, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Grammar[edit]

Could someone more familiar than I with Kabyle possibly add more examples, notably of: nouns that do not follow the general gender prefixes/suffixes, as well as the verb tenses? If there could also be a pronunciation guide added for the sample words, that would be very nice. One more thing to note, Chenoua language makes several references to Kabyle, notably on the subject of Adjectives and Numbers, it would likely benefit both articles if someone could elaborate on them. -- Dalrymple 04:23, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

GA comments[edit]

Hey y'all:

This article shows tons of hard work! I am impressed! KUTGW!

Unfortunately, it will probably get quick-failed :-( at WP:GAC because of a near-total lack of citations. See the FA Mayan languages for an example to follow...

Later! --Ling.Nut 23:27, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

I am failing this sorry, to add to the above the article contains too many lists and tables, one sentence sections, and one sentence paragraphs thus making it fail the "Well-written" criteria. M3tal H3ad 08:10, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

404[edit]

Deleting dead link from Online dictionaries:

Thnidu (talk) 18:13, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Fricatives vs. stops[edit]

This article doesn't make it clear whether the stops are allophones of the fricatives or have phonemic status. Mo-Al (talk) 17:30, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

ref to displacement by other written language needs help[edit]

current version states "Tifinagh alphabet disappeared in the 7th century, when Latin became the official and administrative language in North Africa (as in rest of ex-Roman empire)."

This statement cannot be accurate, as Latin became the official and administrative language with the Roman conquest in the 2nd century BC, remaining until the Vandal conquest in the fifth century AD. The Byzantines returned briefly in the 7th century but Greek was their official language, and they were followed in the late 7th century by the Arabs, who would have considered Latin the language of their arch enemy and never used it as an official language.

However, I have not yet changed it because I don't whether "..disappeared in the 2nd century BC, when Latin became the official.." or "..disappeared in the 7th century, when (Greek OR Arabic) became the official.." would be more faithful to facts.

I was not able to successfully research this. someone else will need to take up that torch..

Old books of historical interest[edit]

Notions succinctes de grammaire kabyle (1881)

https://archive.org/details/NotionsSuccinctesDeGrammaireKabyle

Cours de langue kabyle (1887)

https://archive.org/details/CoursDeLangueKabyle

dictionnaire kabyle (1901)

https://archive.org/details/DictionnaireKabyle

Rajmaan (talk) 07:46, 5 August 2014 (UTC)