Talk:Khalkha Mongols

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  (Redirected from Talk:Khalka Mongols)
Jump to: navigation, search
          This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject Mongols (Rated C-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Mongols, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Mongol culture, history, language, and related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks. WikiProject icon
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the quality scale.
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the importance scale.
 
WikiProject East Asia (Rated C-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject East Asia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of East Asia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Ethnic groups (Rated C-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ethnic groups, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles relating to ethnic groups, nationalities, and other cultural identities on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
 

Stub[edit]

This is just a stub.

True, but a lot of great articles started out this way. Improve it if you can, if not, move on. Thanks for your help. Best, [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 03:25, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I removed the following sentence:

The Khalkha are known chiefly for being the ethnicity from which Genghis Khan (Temujin) and his family originated.

This is wrong. There was no group known as the Khalkha during Chinggis's reign. --Nanshu 03:06, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Origin of Name[edit]

The central highlands around and south of Ulaanbaatar (roughly the territory of the Töv, Överkhangay, and Dundgovi Aymags) are often called "middle Khalkha". On the other hand, there is the river "Khalkhyn Gol" in the far east, which Britannica 11th ed. considers the origin of the name. Is there another river of the same name in the center? --Latebird 10:22, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Found some info, also on the meaning of the word, and added the basic facts. I'm not going to decide whether the river resp. the region got their names before or after the people though, just stating that the names have the same root. The title Kalkas, previously presenting outadated Britannica information, is now a redirect here. --Latebird 12:54, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I dissolved the Origin section because it overlaps with the History section. Instead, we need some basic facts including their population, geographic distribution and notable characteristics.

As for the origin of the name, I wonder where Latebird got the info. The "shield" theory looks to me like a folk etymology. --Nanshu 01:45, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

"They preserved their independence until they had to seek help from the Kangxi Emperor of the Manchu Qing Dynasty against the Dzungar leader Galdan in 1688." This sentence seems to perpetuate that if they were conquered by the Dzungar MONGOLS they would not be independent this is largely ignoring that the Khalkha became subjects of the Manchu. Dzuungar Oirats are MONGOLS, the war was a civil war by those wanting to remain under subjugation with little power (Khalkha Noyons/Nobles) and Dzungar who wanted an a total independent Mongol state for mongols. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.186.149.22 (talk) 00:46, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

I would like to contribute to this discussion, as this word might be of same ethymological root with the Turkish word "halk" meaning "people" or "masses". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.139.199.4 (talk) 07:27, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

That sounds like original research. Do you have any reliable published sources that postulate such a common root? --Latebird (talk) 08:30, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
This user 213.139.199.4 has addressed an interesting point. The Turkic word "Halyk" or "Халык" (Kz: people) really makes any Mongolian speaker astonished by its similarity to the name of Khalkha (the difference in the methods of Latinisation isn't much important). Nevertheless it will require a reliable published sources of the origin of this Turkic word. Guess it should be easy for those who are knowledgeable in Turkic languages to find out. Gantuya eng (talk) 09:47, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
In Mongolian "khalkha" means "shield". Also it used to mean "cheek" in ancient Mongolian. I think the etymology of the name Khalkha was extensively discussed in Д. Гонгор's "Халх товчоон" 1970/1978. Khalkha as a geographic entity was the centre of the Mongol possessions and therefore the safest place for the Mongols to live. (perhaps those in the southern domains were more exposed and vulnerable to the Ming invasions while those in the Western domains were vulnerable to the raids from Mogulistan and other Turkic states). Gantuya eng (talk) 09:57, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
They (scholars) sometimes seek support for this logic from the verses of the Praise of the Six Tumens of Dayan Khaan (Даян хааны зургаан түмний магтаал) found in Шар Тууж written in the 15th (?) century.
Хангай ханд сууж
Харин ирэхийн харуул болсон
Халуун аминд түшиг болсон
Халх түмэн
I wondered about the meaning of this verse for long. Being far away from home Mongolia, the 2nd line began meaning to me "Khalkha always waits for you to return". However, the 3rd line may support the meaning of "shield" or "protection" if it is understood in connection with the 4th line. The entire meaning may sound like "you find home and safety here". In this case, it should have been the name of the region first and later became the name of the population. Gantuya eng (talk) 14:34, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
Can you verify this from Д. Гонгор's book and can we consider him authoritative? Which region would that be then? A while ago, the mentioning of "Middle Khalkha" was removed from the article. Does that have anything to do with it?
So far, I see at least three competing theories:
  • from Khalkhyn Gol
  • from khalkhlakh = to protect, Khalkha = Shield
  • from a geographic region (which?)
It would be nice if we could finally solve this. --Latebird (talk) 20:23, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

National language?[edit]

If I understand this correctly, there is SOME difference between the language of the Khalkha and the official language of Mongolia. If so, was the official language of Mongolia created for communication between the different ethnic groups of Mongolia the way Bahasa Indonesia was created for commmunication between the different ethnic groups of Indonesia? Gringo300 07:48, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

No, there isn't. Besides, this article isn't about the language. --Latebird 08:31, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Unclear content[edit]

"The Seven Khalkha expanded into central Mongolia by absorbing the Uriankhai, who rebelled after Dayan Khan's death." "Expanding into Central Mongolia" and "absoribing the Uriankhai" -- these two activities are difficult to connect. What is meant by "Central Mongolia" in the context of the 15th-16th centuries and which Urianhkhai is mentioned here? Where did these Urianhkhai inhabit? Can these two concepts be shown on a map? Gantuya eng (talk) 09:35, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

This sentence, under the "History" section, is also unclear: "Batmunkh Dayan Khaan created Khalkh Tumen (10000) out of Mongols residing in the territory of current day central Mongolia..." What does the parenthetical 10000 mean in "Khalkh Tumen (10000)?" Marcipangris (talk) 14:15, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Tumen means 10000. The meaning of this word underwent evolution following the political development of Mongolia. First it meant the largest military unit consisting of 10000 warriors. The commanders of such military units were given fiefs. When the fiefs became semi-independent "states", the word "tumen" began to refer to such semi-independent feudal domains. One of those domains was Khalha which occupied the territory of present day Mongolia. Gantuya eng (talk) 14:59, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for clearing that up! Marcipangris (talk) 03:05, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

title[edit]

The correct title of this article should be Khalkha Mongols, not Khalka Mongols as currently is. If some administrator sees this, hope can move it to the correct title. Thanks! --Chinyin (talk) 15:58, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved. --BDD (talk) 18:17, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Khalka MongolsKhalkha Mongols – Khalkha is the term used throughout the article. Khalkha Mongols currently redirects here chinneeb-talk 10:28, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.