Talk:Kilroy was here
|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Kilroy was here article.|
|WikiProject Graffiti||(Rated C-class)|
|Kilroy was here was featured in a WikiWorld cartoon:
(click image to the right for full size version.)
- 1 Why is it so blown out of proportion?
- 2 That's purely speculation
- 3 Woz ere
- 4 Picture
- 5 Just a dustman who's insane?
- 6 Star Trek?
- 7 Freudian theory?
- 8 Kilroy Travels
- 9 Australian children write "Foo"?
- 10 Kilroy Movers
- 11 New Image
- 12 Kit, Weapon & Helmet
- 13 KWH userbox
- 14 Poetry
- 15 Ross Perot Image?
- 16 British usage
- 17 Poor reference under Legends
- 18 Kelly's Hero's Bank scene
- 19 2006 film
- 20 Fair use rationale for Image:Seriemagasinet.jpg
- 21 Another Kilroy sighting...
- 22 Ceramic Kilroy decorations
- 23 "Dubious" classification under Urban Legends Section
- 24 Internal contradiction; inappropriate classification
- 25 I've always found this guy creepy.
- 26 Other countries
- 27 No Pynchon Reference in Article?
- 28 Merge
- 29 Herbie
- 30 Wagner
- 31 pop culture refs
- 32 Pop culture appearances.
- 33 Pop culture deletions
- 34 Cyrano de Bergerac
Why is it so blown out of proportion?
This doodle is given godly status in thsi article. Why? Soldiers would doodle it here or there to let next companies know the area was passed through. What are all these asinine legends around it? If it doesn’t have some sort of citation, just delete it. My god, wiki is trying to fill an entire page with nonsense. "as usual"
What are you talking about? This graffiti is famous. It is not just limited to soilders in WW2. It has been seen all over the world in cities, towns everywhere. It has fallen out of practice in the last 30 years, but for I time everyone was drawing it everywhere. And no need to take the lords name in vane. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 06:53, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
Kilroy is on the WWII memorial in D.C.
They missed the Styx song,Mr. Roboto. The song ends with "This time has come at last, To throw away this mask, so everyone can see, my true identity... I'm Kilroy! Kilroy! Kilroy!"
Well, I am sure everything in this article is NPOV and accurate ;) -- Cimon Avaro on a pogo stick 19:14 21 Jun 2003 (UTC)
- Especially as it simply copied from the weblink below - anyone want to solve the copyright infringement by rewording it? - andy 19:19 21 Jun 2003 (UTC)
- I solved it by removing it completely. It was an interesting article, but completely copyvio. Those interested can still read the text at the linked site. —Frecklefoot 19:27, 26 Sep 2003 (UTC)
That's purely speculation
James J Kilroy was the man behind the signature. an inspector, lived in Boston, Massachusetts, served in the Legislature and during World War II worked in a shipyard in Quincy where the famous saying was born. Millions of service men saw the slogan on the outgoing ships and all they knew was that "Kilroy" had been there first. Service men began placing the graffiti wherever the US Forces landed, claiming it was already there when they arrived. Kilroy then became the "Super-GI" who had always already been wherever the GIs went.
That's pure speculation, we should have more theories.
J. J. Kilroy was a rivet counter. He tagged the panels after counting the rivets so those rivets would not get counted again.
per: Research team at the History Channel.
Ugg. The picture for this was done in MS paint. Can't we manage better than this?--Crucible Guardian 19:30, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
- You know, if you can do better, please do. However, I wonder why you are concerned which software was used to create the picture. ike9898 20:49, July 11, 2005 (UTC)
Just a dustman who's insane?
In addition to the Styx album, "Kilroy Was Here" was the titular subject of a song by The Move praising the "public poet" who'd "left his name around the place".
Or somehting similar with a laser engraving a rock with the message? Rich Farmbrough 10:12, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
- That's Asimov's "The Message". --Paul A 02:11, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
Huh? What the hell is with that far fetched crok of shit? If that merits two lines, I'll come up with my own wackier theory. --Fizzl
- I moved the oedipus thing down. I think its doubtful that anyione (even the author of that theory) thinks Kilroy was created with Oedipus in mind, but the theory may have some sort of subconsious ressonance, and that may have had something to do with the popularity and pervasiveness of the phenominon. In any case, its nearly as playusible as the standard explination, so I have moved it for de-emphasis. Gaijin42 13:53, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
That depends. Was the name of the agency based on the "Kilroy was here" phenomenon? If so, then it could be mentioned. Vsst 22:57, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
Australian children write "Foo"?
In an edit in 2004, Tannin asserts
- Australian children write "Foo was here" under the illustration
I hav livd in Australia my entire life, and hav never seen this. Can enyone verify it? MichaelWard 03:00, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
- I second that. Maybe we're just sad... I have seen this image before on pavements and stuff, back in primary school, but I don't remember anyone calling it anything, it was just a bit of cute graffiti. TrianaC 04:29, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
- A born Australian I've never heard of Foo. I remember my mother teaching me the drawing as a child, but no mention of Foo there. I'll leave it for a bit. But I'll take it down if nothing happens evedence wise Gohst 06:12, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
As a child of the '80's, I have WRITTEN and doodled all over my home town with 'foo woz ere' but I have no idea how it came about. Sorry... just something that was a big fad in the 70's and 80's in rural Victoria. 220.127.116.11 04:13, 11 May 2007 (UTC)rosewart
- I can confirm that "Foo was here" was very common in Australia in my youth - but it now seems to be virtually non-existent. Afterwriting (talk) 11:11, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
- Foo has been in Australia since the early 1900's. My grandfather, who was born in 1899 drew it when he was a young person. I recall seeing it appearing and disappearing on building sites, convenient brick walls, railway stations etc for at least the last 6 decades.It is definitely an Australian Icon. 18.104.22.168 (talk) 22:47, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
On my commute to work today, I was stuck behind a truck for Kilroy Movers , an East Coast moving company and I noticed that the truck had markings claiming that they were the originators of "Kilroy was here". I don't know whether this is to be believed or not but the claim does exist. --gwax UN (say hi) 14:49, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
Maybe we should create a section for all these different theories and claims about the origin of "kilroy was here" and the associated doodle. Vsst 22:59, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
I added a new image to the page of the WWII kilroy. Its better quality than the drawing at the top, but since the traditional use is grafitti, and this is an engraving, I don't know if it is fitting to be the top level picture. Gaijin42 20:40, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
Kit, Weapon & Helmet
Should really be updated to Kit, Weapon, Helmet & Computer.
22.214.171.124 04:36, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
thought i'd just tell people i've made a kilroy was here userbox. Template:User kilroy was here
- How about this UBX?
- I saw something over the weekend on the history channel about Fort Knox. They showed for a moment a "Killroy was Here" with 1937 or 1938 next to it. That would pre-date WW2.--Purpleslog 18:26, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
Clap your hands and jump with joy, For you were here before Kilroy.
Ross Perot Image?
How about adding this , or at least a mention of it. Not really off topic given what other articles contain.
"n the United Kingdom, such graffiti are known as "chads"."
No. No they aren't. Not to my knowledge, anyway. I live in the UK, and I've never heard the thing refereed to as anything other than 'the Kilroy woz here' cartoon, or similar. Either that, or the 'wot, no ___?' cartoon. WikiReaderer 18:32, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
- Yes they are. I was born in 1977, and growing up in the 1980s in England I knew them as "Chads" or "Mr Chad". I think my mother first told me about them. I'd never associated them with "Kilroy", having only ever seen "Kilroy woz 'ere" as text-only graffiti. I think conflating Kilroy with Chad must be an American thing that spread over here later. 126.96.36.199 (talk) 19:40, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
Yup, I concur, growing up in the 70s in England they were referred to as "Chads" or "Mr Chad". I also owned a ceramic bookshelf Chad and purchased a secondhand vinyl copy of Pink Floyd's "The Wall" album where the previous owner had written "Chad Woz Ere" on it. I also comment my source code to this day with my name and Woz Ere. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 19:20, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
Poor reference under Legends
Currently the last line of this section cites this page:  as a source... I'm not sure of the validity of this, as it's a link to h2g2, a user-contributed collaboration which itself cites no reference... granted, I haven't actually read WP:V, but the way I see it you might as well be citing this:  as a source. 184.108.40.206 15:50, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
- Not only that, but the cite doesn't match the text. 220.127.116.11 19:47, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Kelly's Hero's Bank scene
...is mentioned twice...fix it if I'm right, please... 18.104.22.168 22:03, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
Fair use rationale for Image:Seriemagasinet.jpg
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Another Kilroy sighting...
In the Squaresoft (now Square-Enix) game Vagrant Story, there's a room among the dungeon maps that has the title "Kilroy was Here" in it, though I don't remember exactly which room it was.Mimeblade (talk) 20:00, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Back in the 60s or 70s I read a computer programming book -- don't recall the name. That book had many instances of a Kilroy cartoon being used to add levity and to illustrate various concepts; that was my first encounter with Kilroy. But when I made some enquiries I learned that it was a WWII remnant that was still part of popular culture of the WWII generation, but only distant echos of it were being passed down/retained by the newer generations. codeslinger compsalot 22.214.171.124 (talk) 15:22, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
Ceramic Kilroy decorations
Growing up in the 70s and 80s, my parents, grandparents, and great grandparents always had these ceramics of the Kilroy head and hand peeking over the tops of bookcase and curios (with the nose and fingers coming over the edge exactly like the Kilroy graphic). They called them "room watchers" and said they were good luck. I have inherited one and for a time it "lived" in my apartment. (I think it's in storage right now.)
Anyway, I came here looking for a reference to the ceramic incarnations. Perhaps it was not a widely known thing. I did have a relative that did ceramics for the family and perhaps she just made them for us to have. But, if anyone out there has also seen or heard of this, I'd be interested in knowing and maybe seeing a mention on the page.
"Dubious" classification under Urban Legends Section
Classifying two of the urban legends with 'Dubious' is redundant, to say the least.
Being called an urban legend already casts the appropriate level of doubt on the plausibility of the two stories. Also tagging them as dubious has the unintended effect of saying "It's doubtful that this is really an urban legend", as opposed to the intended effect of saying "It's doubtful that this is true." Most readers should be intelligent enough to know that urban legends are seldom true, thus making the 'dubious' tag completely unnecessary (and possibly misleading) in this case. 126.96.36.199 (talk) 19:29, 25 August 2008 (UTC)BDabbs 8/25/08
- And many don't. Is tagging an urban legend with "dubious" inaccurate? Ravenswing 20:39, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
- Let me phrase it differently: by tagging it dubious, are we saying it's doubtful that the legend is historically accurate, or are we saying it's doubtful this is/was an urban legend (as opposed to some random theory someone just came up with while reading the article)? I mean, the legend about Stalin and the outhouse is, at least in my mind, just as likely to have actually happened as Hitler thinking Kilroy was a super-agent, and just as verifiable. Mainly, I don't see why some urban legends would be 'dubious' while others are not; urban legends are inherently dubious, and you don't have to follow the link to know that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 21:14, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
Internal contradiction; inappropriate classification
[Another legend states that the Transit Company of America held a competition in 1946 offering a real trolley car to the man who could verify he was the "real Kilroy". J. J. Kilroy brought his co-workers with him to prove that he was undeniably the true Kilroy. The other forty or so men who showed up were not able to establish they were the "real" Kilroy. Kilroy gave his prize to his nine children to play with in their front yard.]
a) This is not a legend, it is a newspaper article cited by the Wiki author as the most likely explanation of the "Kilroy was here" phrase, itself subsequently merged with the famous drawing.
b) Legends don't 'state' anything, that's their nature. The introductory phrase you are looking for is "According to another legend," a WAF pilot saw this written on the side of a UFO, or whatever. Bear in mind, too, that not all legends are urban legends. Urban legends are pretty much an email phenomenon and have a unique structure and propagation.
c) In the late forties and early fifties we took great pleasure in accessing the most inaccessible places we could imagine upon which to scratch this appealing element of culture. We (of course) included false dates. I, personally, applied this graffito to the end of one of the giant beams upon which the dome of Washington state's capitol rests and dated it with my sister's birthdate of August 21, 1939. We also relished putting it on various structural members of the many new buildings going up in the post-War building boom, the insides of 4' sewer pipes waiting to be buried the next day, the concrete footing of a bank vault awaiting installation, the flagpole on the Smith Tower, and so forth. The joy of the graffito was in drawing it without a horizontal line; rather, the line was implied by the fingers and nose. Sometimes my personal variation added a pot belly and clown feet; further elaboration included shabby shoes with a big toe sticking out, and a scraggle of ramen noodle-y hair.
It isn't ancient history. Read such seniors' sites as "Suddenly Senior" and check out the articles and readers' comments to learn from those who lived the era. Good grief, all y'alls, Bill Mauldin only just died in 2003!
I've always found this guy creepy.
And I don't even get what it is. 184.108.40.206 (talk) 23:15, 11 November 2008 (UTC) Creepy isn't the word. There's something wrong with in some indescribable way.--Anna Frodesiak (talk) 14:59, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
No Pynchon Reference in Article?
I thought someone would have made reference to Thomas Pynchon's "V". I think the Kilroy reference is in the article of "V".
It seems that "Herbie was here" was a Canadian equivalent of "Kilroy was here". Herbie was a cartoon character created in 1944 by Bing Coughlin for the Maple Leaf, a Canadian forces magazine. His face resembles Chad, and even used the phrase "Wot, no--?" at least once. The sourcing isn't great so I'm not sure about including this. Fences&Windows 00:00, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
Modern military installations have "Wagner Loves the Cock" written all over their porta-johns. This has been reported in FOBs as a part of Operation Iraqi Freedom as well as Operation Enduring Freedom. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 20:38, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
pop culture refs
I thikn we need to trim pop culture refs to ones that are particularly notable or exemplary. THis is a very popular phrase, and no doubt has been used in multitudes of places. Every individual tv episode or novel that did a 1 second gag using this is not needed to be mentioned. Gaijin42 (talk) 17:09, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
Pop culture appearances.
I'm loathe to correct such a formidable polymath as Thomas Pynchon, but the circuit so depicted (as a series element) would be a band-stop filter (a notch filter); it could be part of a band-pass filter when inserted in parallel with the load. Rt3368 (talk) 10:40, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
Pop culture deletions
- Actually, primary references are not fine, they are against policy in general, unless also confirmed by reliable secondary sources.
- Second, the purpose of "In popular culture" sections is to enhance our understanding of the subject of the article. Any item which does not also fulfill this function is trivia and should not be included.
- The essay WP:IPC explains all this, and is firmly based in Wikipedia policy. The items which were being removed are trivia only - they do not enhance our understanding of "Kilroy was here". Therefore they are exactly the type of trivia we should not be including. Any mention belongs in the article on the related subject rather than here, so that it can be linked to this article. Now that might be useful. Trivia here is not. Yworo (talk) 21:07, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
Cyrano de Bergerac
The theory that Kilroy was a deliberate nod by the US Army to a 17th century French dramatist was added by an IP sourced to "U.S. Army Slang, 2014, Anthony DiFatta, 2014 Self Published" - I cut it as WP:SPS and it was added back by User:Hungryusa without the source. Has this theory ever appeared outside of a recently self-published book? --McGeddon (talk) 21:52, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
- Given that this looks like a COI issue of somebody quoting their own or their friend's theory with no source, I've cut it. --McGeddon (talk) 08:52, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
- This was added back again today by User:Hungryusa, now sourced to Gordon L. Rottman's FUBAR: Soldier Slang of World War II instead of the self-published DiFatta book. But Rottman's work is available online and says nothing about Cyrano de Bergerac or the graffiti being used to symbolise "self-doubt". --McGeddon (talk) 14:07, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
Sir, have you considered the possibility before Kilroy was Here was recorded posthumously, the idea sprang from the "learning curve" during WWII. I understand we are at peace with other continents, yet, has America lost it's "learning curve" of a theory of itself "Kilroy Is Here", to the degree that computers and learning curve are available for learning, editing, and correcting? Thank you. 18.104.22.168 (talk) 13:32, 11 August 2014 (UTC)HungryUSA