Talk:King of Italy

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Sources[edit]

This article only sights a handful of sources. It denies things that other articles seem to have established as fact. If you're going to say Odaocer was only "Dux Italiae[sp?]" and "not Rex Italiae as commonly thought" you really need a source. So please find some reliable sources, but until then, the 'lack of sources' tag stays up. --IronMaidenRocks (talk) 21:47, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Frankish kings 9th-10th centuries[edit]

This section has become way too complicated and hard to follow. Just put the names and dates and let the reader know that the throne was in dispute during this period. Let them click a link if they wish to learn the details. This is not he page for it. Srnec (talk) 23:34, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Francis II[edit]

The next year, the Emperor Francis II abdicated his Italian royal title.

Francis abdicated as Emperor. His imperial title implied a claim to the title of "King of Italy," but so far as I'm aware, no Emperor for several hundred years had actually used this title, although they did claim that the northern Italian states were imperial fiefs. I think this should be clarified. john k (talk) 23:05, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Victor Emmanuel the first to rule all of Italy?[edit]

What is the basis for this claim? Didn't Odoacer, Theodoric, Athalaric, and Theodahad rule over the whole peninsula? john k (talk) 04:51, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

It's got to be false any way you slice it. He didn't rule San Marino (or the Vatican, or Trentino–Alto Adige) and the Roman emperors certainly ruled as much of Italy as he did. If you try to wiggle around this by making him the first ruler of a unified and distinct state comprising all Italy, you just raise the question what constitutes Italy, how much more than just the peninsula is it? If it is just the peninsula, then indeed I think the barbarian kings you mentioned succeeded in ruling the whole thing. I wonder about the Emperor Henry VI also. Depends on his relationship to the Papal states, and how it was viewed at the time. Srnec (talk) 05:25, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
The Vatican was actually part of Italy until the Lateran Treaty of 1929; the Holy See itself was still considered sovereign, but did not have sovereignty over any territory. But, yeah. john k (talk) 14:44, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Removal of Frederick II[edit]

I am removing Frederick II from the list of Kings of Italy. Although Frederick II was crowned King of the Romans, King of Sicily, King of Jerusalem and Holy Roman Emperor, he never crowned King of Italy at Pavia, Monza or Milan during his lifetime - see Sismondi's History of the Italian Republics in the Middle Ages, (1906), pg. 143; 147 and Kington-Oliphant's, History of Frederick the Second, Emperor of the Romans, Vol I, (1862), pg. 195 which specifically state that the Milanese refused to crown Frederick with the Iron Crown. Neither is his coronation as King of Italy mentioned in any modern source, such as Abulafia's, The New Cambridge Medieval History, Vol. V: c. 1198-c. 1300, (1999), which does mention his other coronations - see page 382 as an example. I have also reviewed Bryce's, The Holy Roman Empire, (1913), Comyn's History of the Western Empire, from its Restoration by Charlemagne to the Accession of Charles V, Vol. I. (1851) and Dunham's, A History of the Germanic Empire, Vol. I, (1835). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Oatley2112 (talkcontribs) 04:02, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Between Charles V and Napoleon[edit]

According to Italian Wiki, no emperor after Charles V went to Italy to be coronated, or used the title "king of Italy." I searched for each of the people listed on GBooks (Ferdinand I, Maximillan II, Rudolf II, Matthias, Ferdinand II, and Ferdinand III). I didn't find anything about them being king of Italy, let alone being crowned on the dates indicated. This source is really old, but it does give a list of kings ending with Charles V, and it includes a note stating that later emperors did not claim the title. Greatness Bites (talk) 22:04, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

I redid this list after consulting Muratori's list, as well as Italian Wiki and the appropriate biography articles. I added Conrad II of Italy and Lothair III, and removed Wenceslaus IV, Albert II, and Maximilian I. Wenceslaus and Albert were never emperors, so they were obviously included on this list by mistake. Maximilian was an emperor but never crowned as such, so it is unlikely he was crowned as king of Italy either. Greatness Bites (talk) 03:55, 25 September 2013 (UTC)