Talk:King of the Gypsies
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This article brings together knowledge acquired on the periphery of my main research interests. I thought it would be useful to bring together many disparate references, and some which refer to people who may not have been called King of the Gypsies but were clearly very similar in role to people who had. There is insufficient space to investigate the social and political context in which it used, though in some cases it is obvious. Most of these would not justify an article on their own, cross-referenced to a category. I have included clearly fictional characters because they inform the context. My main knowledge is Britain. I am aware that in a wider context sections need expanding. I am aware of the Gypsy/Roma issue. As this is an article recording history, not a current work of sociology I think it is right to use the term as used at the time. GBH 14:01, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
- This article needs a lot of help. For one, Travelers are not Roma. So it makes little sense to lump what appear to be Roma leaderships and Traveler leadership all together under the title King of the Gypsies. For example, Bartley Gorman was decidedly not Roma at all and his title 'King of the Gypsies' seems to have had nothing to do with leadership in anything other than brawling. --Geofferic (talk) 07:40, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
Some gramaticle edits are needed, but I'll tend to those myself. In a few cases it's hard to tell what the author was trying to say, so additional refernces may be needed.
- Please do NOT retitle. The referral of the heads of 'gypsie' clans at 'Kings' or 'Queens' has a history to it, in a large number of countries. There are also more that can be included as the article grows. As well, the titles you suggest are racist stereotypes. While there have been criminal elements regarging various 'gypsy' clans, it would be no more accurate than saying all Italians were connected to the mafia. AGF and all. -- Kavri 11:51, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
As the original author I was not trying to say anything, just to record what I knew, and provide an opportunity for those who know more to add - that's what Wikipedia is all about.
There is a history of cross cultural use of 'King of The Gypsies', or perhaps use by a sub culture within larger cultures. 'Kings of Thieves' and 'Lords of Missrule' are not the same; they have specific different meanings, unrelated to 'King of the Gypsies'. GBH 19:19, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
please keep article
I ran across this article when taking stock of what information on the 'Gypsies' was in Wikipedia. There are a number of articles: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gypsies which also includes links to articles on each sub-group, as does the following: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roma_People
I hope that in fixing the issue with the template that the article can be kept...while it needs a lot of work, it adds further information to the other articles. As well, there is an article on Peter Maas, who wrote "King of the Gypsies" and it has a great deal of information in it regarding the "Gypsies" in the United States, including the 'Kings' and 'Queens'.
I hope to do some work on all the above articles, and have an excellent resource book for the topic as well. -- Kavri 11:47, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Bluebeard - Yes & No
Both recents edits are right and wrong. There was no pirate "Bluebeard", though there was a "Blackbeard" (Edward Teach), who is sometimes mistakenly called Bluebeard. There was pirate "Barbe-Bleu" which would translate to Bluebeard, but is and should be left in the original French. Neither of these had anything to do with this Bluebeard who, so far as I am aware appears nowhere else. GBH 16:38, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
- Bluebeard is a fictional character, likely modeled after Gilles de Rais. --Geofferic (talk) 07:42, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
Keep this page
Real Gypsies has no king
As the originater of this article I agree - the point is well-made, and the evidence seems to suggest that in the sense of a heriditary monarch it is correct. Wikipedia is about presenting factual material neutrally. There are many questions about the exact relationship between "gypsies" and "Rom"; the two are not exactly the same.GBH (talk) 20:17, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
The story stating Johnnie Faa who received the letter from King James, granting him the power and title of 'King of Scottish Gysies, and then running off with the Countess is incorrect. It was Sir John Faa, grandson of the first Gypsy King mentioned who ran off with the Countess of Cassilis, was caught by her husband and along with the two remaining Gypsy aids. Some historians believe Jean Hamilton and Sir John were alerady married, a story I believe to be true after all the research I have read over the years. Sir John was half brother to Mary Queen of Scots, and it was through King James' affair with John Faa's sister Estre, that he gave John Faa the power he granted. Sir John was a wealthy and handsome man, and he and Jean had been in love for a long while. It was her father that arranged the marriage with the old Count of Cassilis, and that's how the plot to run away was hatched. The Count made Jean stand at the window which overlooked the 'Dule' tree where the three men were hanged. This incident is the basis of the old folk song, 'Three Gypsies stood at the Castle gate'. As for Gypsies not having any King or Queen. Every group has a leader, and John Faa was the leader in Scotland, although the Faa family were not of Gypsy blood. They were originally from Wales, Celts, but had moved north to escape foreign invaders, and the Faa's--or Fawr family date back to the early Kings of Wales. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 22:33, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
- I take it you have never realized that romanies in the UK took British names in order to sound less foreign, so tracing the Faa name back to Wales proves nothing. The English names Boswell, West, Marshall originat in England or the Norman Conquest so are you assuming the Marshall romanichels are French-norse? The Faa family are romanies they took names in the areas they arrived in including the borders of Scotland where the name Faa was common.Uthican (talk) 00:56, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
I don't know if it matters, but to me it does, the gypsi's (sinti and roma) did have actual kings (at least the roma) , the more common Roma in north west europe still do. He is just "the king of gypsie's", i think the article would be more complete with that reference.188.8.131.52 (talk) 23:58, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
Vandalism in section Bulgaria
The section about Bulgaria gypsy king seems to be pure vandalism. This "citation needed" is funny there. Please, just remove the whole section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 19:45, 27 July 2009 (UTC)