Talk:Kingdom of Commagene

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Comments[edit]

Photo[edit]

The eagle on the pillar is NOT a part of the grave sanctuary of Antiochos on Mount Nemrud; it is situated in Karakus. So either change the photo, or change the accompanying text... The are some errors in the text on the Nemrud monument as well, I might correct them if I can find the time.

Move[edit]

The following discussion is of a move from Kommagene

Support: English usage is clear and almost invariable. (Nominator vote) Septentrionalis 18:04, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

  • Support — the spelling with C is in general use and standard; a spelling in K is used with the mistaken idea that it is more 'authentic'. Gareth Hughes 23:03, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Support — Commagene is also even the Latin name. Also, no reason not to keep this as a redirect. Satyadasa 09:28, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
    • I expect to keep the redirect, which would be automagically created by the move; getting rid of it would be a separate process at WP:RfD, and I'm not going to make that nomination. Septentrionalis 16:45, 24 September 2005 (UTC)


Edit[edit]

Most of the stuff in this article was a mess/unverifiable so I cleaned up and removed irrelevan content.Hetoum I 05:21, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Merge[edit]

Why not to merge this small article into the larger article of Kingdom of Commagene (or vice versa)? Ellipi (talk) 11:08, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

So-called Armenian origin[edit]

although the origin of Kingdom was not clear but it is believed to Greek or Persian.193.140.194.102 (talk) 21:46, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Bring some sources. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.70.55.213 (talk) 12:49, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

You wrote some history books but you didn't understand and did not ask "is it true?" or "what is historical chronology". Did you see Commagene ancient ruins or Mt. Nemrut - Kahta or any statue of Commagene? I can say a lot of about Commagene because I'm a tourist guide in Turkey. 1- Kahta Mt. Nemrut's up side, that is a masonry stone tomb (tumulus) build in BC 80-60, you can see god-goddess statues in east terrace. That statue's back side have a inscription with two language: Parsian and Greek... Not letter or word in Commagene statue with Armenian, alphabet or word.. 2- BC 160-60 period, a lot of Armenian family make small feudal lord in west & south Caucasia. A lot of lord's name Mithridates, Tigran, Orontes / Oronthes, Vagran, Pharnes, etc... Those are not Armenian names. Many of the names of Armenian origin comes from Part languages. So, if the kings name Mithridates (in Parthian mean "light, sun" like Armenian) you cant say Armenia or Parthia. You must check control "what is the royality and citizens language?" Part Pontos Kingdom (BC 201-60 free, BC 60 AD 60 Roman Vassal) royal writing language is Greek, citizens use a lot of (may be 12-13 different) language. 3- If Mithridates mean is same in Parthia and Armenia, you must check control linguistic rules. In Akhemenid - Persian period, BC550, Armenian vassal kingdom build in this period (look http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achaemenid_Empire). Word ethymological time, come before Urartu Kingdom period BC 858, King Arame. This kingdoms origin is Assyrian kingdoms - period (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urartu). So Mithridates is not a Armenian word. Anatolia heritage (talk) 12:17, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

Very misleading map and too many links to Armenia[edit]

Surely this article is about the "Kingdom of Commagene", not Armenia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.18.202.82 (talk) 13:13, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Article hijacked by Armeno-centrists! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.209.78.54 (talk) 19:25, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

I used to believe that its ruling elite had Iranian roots but today I saw myself that at least one serious source (Cambridge Ancient History, see respective citation) insists on the Armenian identity.--Dipa1965 (talk) 21:05, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
Ok, I see that the anonymous nationalist ip does not care about references. Perhaps some kind of semi-protection is needed due to this constant edit warring.--Dipa1965 (talk) 14:20, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

Article protected[edit]

This article has been protected from editing for three days to try to generate talk page discussion of the disputed content. Please follow the WP:BRD guideline. You may also wish to consider dispute resolution (WP:DR). Mark Arsten (talk) 15:17, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

Trying to resolve the dispute on the Armenian identity of the Commagene kingdom[edit]

Following the suggestion given by the admin in the section above, and although I am very new to this article, I will try to explain what is happening now and suggest some means to stop this useless edit war:

  • At least one reliable (see WP:Reliable Sources) source (The Cambridge History of Iran, The Seleucid, Parthian and Sasanian Periods, Cambridge University Press, 1983, ISBN 052120092X, see article's Notes where a link to Google Books is provided) states that the kingdom was an Armenian one
  • Some anonymous ip editors revert any Armenian element in the article, including names, categories and the reliable source mentioned above. These editors so far have not brought any reliable source that supports a non-Armenian origin. These edits are speedily reverted
  • There was at least one opinion (see discussion above) that the origin of Commagene identity was Iranian or Greek. This claim was not accompanied by reliable sources

Deniers of the Armenian origin of Commagene are perfectly justified to add any kind of properly referenced "non-armenian" view. Keep in mind that "properly referenced" means that, among else, these views must not be marginal ones. Additionally, since the contrasting view (i.e. the Armenian origin theory) is properly referenced, no one is justified to remove it. Two or more contrasting views can perfectly co-exist in an article. In the end, it's only a matter of sources.--Dipa1965 (talk) 21:42, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

Commagene Kingdom is not part of Armenia Kingdom[edit]

You wrote some history books but you didn't understand and did not ask "is it true?" or "what is historical chronology". Did you see Commagene ancient ruins or Mt. Nemrut - Kahta or any statue of Commagene? I can say a lot of about Commagene because I'm a tourist guide in Turkey. 1- Kahta Mt. Nemrut's up side, that is a masonry stone tomb (tumulus) build in BC 80-60, you can see god-goddess statues in east terrace. That statue's back side have a inscription with two language: Parsian and Greek... Not letter or word in Commagene statue with Armenian, alphabet or word.. 2- BC 160-60 period, a lot of Armenian family make small feudal lord in west & south Caucasia. A lot of lord's name Mithridates, Tigran, Orontes / Oronthes, Vagran, Pharnes, etc... Those are not Armenian names. Many of the names of Armenian origin comes from Part languages. So, if the kings name Mithridates (in Parthian mean "light, sun" like Armenian) you cant say Armenia or Parthia. You must check control "what is the royality and citizens language?" Part Pontos Kingdom (BC 201-60 free, BC 60 AD 60 Roman Vassal) royal writing language is Greek, citizens use a lot of (may be 12-13 different) language. 3- If Mithridates mean is same in Parthia and Armenia, you must check control linguistic rules. In Akhemenid - Persian period, BC550, Armenian vassal kingdom build in this period (look http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achaemenid_Empire). Word ethymological time, come before Urartu Kingdom period BC 858, King Arame. This kingdoms origin is Assyrian kingdoms - period (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urartu). So Mithridates is not a Armenian word. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.247.145.120 (talk) 12:05, 5 February 2014 (UTC)