Talk:Knoxville, Tennessee

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Farragut[edit]

Because Farragut AKA Yankee Town has been added and deleted multiple times (because everyone hates it except the Yankees who live there), and because other items such as Powell and Fountain City exist as incorporated towns / cities all to themselves, I've changed the category heading from "Neighborhoods" to "Neighborhoods and Suburbs." This should reduce any confusion about these towns while leaving the header specific enough to exclude nearby larger cities such as Oak Ridge and so forth. --Avery W. Krouse 18:28, Apr 30, 2005 (UTC)

Fountain City and Powell are not incorporated. Fountain City is part of incorporated Knoxville. I don't know how much of Powell (if any) is inside the city limits. Farragut is the only other incorporated city in Knox County. I've added a new section for nearby cities to properly classify Farragut. -- Fingers-of-Pyrex 16:00, 2005 May 4 (UTC)

Henry Alexander Tiller and Tiller's Potato Chips[edit]

I'm shocked that any article in regard to Knoxville, TN doesn't mention Henry Alexander Tiller, founder of Tiller's Potato Chips on North Broadway and my maternal grandfather! He was also a City Councilman and I was in attendance when he and Cas Walker had a confrontation and Cas invited my grandfather outside. Several Councilmen stepped in to separate the two men. My grandparents had seven children. My mother, Margaret, was the second oldest. Mother married Ray Alexander Helton from Grainger County and they built a beautiful house on Bona Road in Chilhowee Hills. Dad was a Production Manager at Fulton Sylphon.(User:Susan Nieuwenhuis) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Susan Nieuwenhuis (talkcontribs) 20:48, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Doesn't appear to be notable. A genealogy site is probably the more appropriate place for the above info. Bms4880 (talk) 18:32, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Kenny Chesney[edit]

According to Mr. Chesney's website, he was born and raised in Luttrell, Tennessee. -- Fingers-of-Pyrex 00:39, 2005 Jun 15 (UTC)

For the sake of Wikipedia accuracy, Kenny Chesney has been removed again. I will make an entry in the Luttrell page concerning Chesney. --Avery W. Krouse 00:22, August 31, 2005 (UTC)


Famous Knoxvillians[edit]

This section should only be for people the common person would at least have a passing familiarity with, and not used for self-promotion... when somone (say, the latest addition, now deleted) only comes up with 149 hits on a Google search, they're NOT famous...

Is 10 Years a famous band? I have never heard of them but I have been out of Knoxville for four years. Not too many google hits. If they are famous should the individual members be listed under Famous Knoxvillians? I didn't delete it because I really do not know? Sounds like self promotion to me. BDSIII 03:38, 23 January 2006 (UTC) 03:36, Jan 23, 2006 (Zulu)

  • Yeah, as much as I hate their music, they are famous. They get a lot of radio time. Winick88 08:05, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
  • By the way, I really liked the earlier edit that changed "Famous Knoxvillians" to "Notable Knoxvillians." It sounds better. Winick88 01:10, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Is Glenn Reynolds a notable Knoxvillian? --Daniel11 12:27, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
I'd say so. Instapundit is pretty famous, as blogs go Awiseman 21:05, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
  • I added a link to Alexander Bonnyman, Jr.. Born in Atlanta, his parents moved to Knoxville when he was an infant; he grew up in Knoxville and spent some of his adult life in Knoxville. He lived several years as an adult in New Mexico just before entering the Marines. I put his link in the Famous Knoxvillians section -- should he be listed as a famous non-native resident?
No disrespect to his having won a posthumous Medal of Honor, but he's not exactly famous - a Google search on his name brings up only 94 unique returns, most related to a Marine film he appeared in. TheRealFennShysa 18:39, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
I'd say keep him on the list, since there's already a pretty long Wikipedia article about him. However, the article doesn't mention Knoxville. --Awiseman 21:46, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
I counted a few more hits: 1520 Google hits (277 unique) for "Alexander Bonnyman", 847 (205 unique) for "Alex Bonnyman", and 28 (17 unique) for "Sandy Bonnyman. Is there some sort of required (or consensus) Wikipedia threshold? There's been a Wikipedia article on Alexander Bonnyman, Jr. since last November with about 25 edits by 10 different people -- should it be deleted? It's part of a series of articles (about half-complete) for each of the Marines' 296 Medal of Honor recipients. (There's no similar project underway for the other military services). Note that some of the hits are actually for the Maritime Prepositioning ship named after him.
There are at least 3 other medal of Honor recipients associated with Knoxville that I am aware of: Troy McGill, Mitchell Stout, and James "Buck" Karnes (the Alcoa Highway Bridge near UT is named for Karnes). All were in the Army and none have Wikipedia articles yet, although Karnes' story is written up in text of the article about Knoxville's National Guard unit, the U.S. 278th Armored Cavalry Regiment.
There are some other people you may want to consider for your list: Joseph Wood Krutch, The Aldridge Sisters, William Gannaway Brownlow, Ann Taylor (NPR newscaster), Weston Fulton (inventor of the thermostat), Father Abram Joseph Ryan, Homer and Jethro, George Franklin Barber, William Blount, John Sevier and John Cullum. Some were natives, some residents.--A. B. 00:03, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
AB - those all look like good adds to me, except for Abram Joseph Ryan, who seems to have only spent a short amount of time in Knoxville. What's the connection between Alexander Bonnyman and Knoxville? As I said, it's not mentioned in the article. --Awiseman 05:55, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Abram Joseph Ryan was the priest at Immaculate Conception during the Civil War and an ardent supporter of the Confederacy; I had learned in school that he did most of his work in Knoxville. There's a historical marker about him downtown linking him strongly to Knoxville, however when I read the Wikipedia article on him, it looks like he moved all over the South. So my "knowledge" of Father Ryan's link to Knoxville may just be a Knoxville-biased artifact from my 1960s parochial school education in Knoxville. It would be interesting to learn what Metropulse's Jack Neely has written about him; in the meantime, barring more information, I'd say keep him off the list.
Alexander Bonnyman, Jr. was my uncle. When I've had time, I've corrected a few minor inaccuracies about him on Wikipedia and other web sites -- things like place of burial, etc. There was a lot of inaccurate mythology that sprang up about him during the war (for instance, that he died smiling at his troops, etc.) Because he was born in Atlanta, he's sometimes associated in historical references with Atlanta, but he never really lived there. For instance, he's listed on the Category:Atlantans page. If you go to the first two external links cited at the end of his article, you'll read that he was really from Knoxville (and later New Mexico). I was primarily trying to correct his Wikipedia record, not "butt into" the Knoxville article. I was unaware that there was a Category:Knoxvillians page in addition to the list of famous people on the main Knoxville page. I see now that TheRealFennShysa switched the Knoxville link at the end of the Bonnyman article article to the Knoxvillians page; that may be more appropriate. My goal has been to improve the information already posted to Wikipedia, not to create a web of family-vanity entries.
The history section is very sparse and could be substantially expanded or carved off into a separate article. It would be great to recruit Jack Neely to look at this section and hopefully add to it. From my own reading of various books on Knoxville history, no previous historian has ever put the effort into researching local primary sources that he has.
  • Back to "10 Years", they are actually quite famous. I may have went a bit overboard by adding "shadwWax" and "Copper", but I definately think "10 Years" is noteworthy. They are currently on an international tour and have been inteviewed on the nationally (maybe internationally) broadcast, "world famous" Harddrive radio show where the host, Lou Brutus, stated that they are "quickly becoming one of the biggest rock band's in the world." Their debut album, "The Autumn Effect", was produced by Josh Abraham who is affiliated with "Staind" and "Velvet Revolver", and it is doing very well. Also, they currently have at least two hits, "Wasteland" and "Through the Iris", that are frequently being played on the radio. Lastly, I don't how you guys google, but I got over 1.5 million hits for "10 years". As for if the band should be listed as seperate individuals, I don't think so. They're not known that way. They're known as a band from Knoxville.Valiantineus 05:38, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Famous to you and your friends, perhaps, but to the general populace, they're not well-known. You throw out names suchs as "Harddrive radio show" and "Lou Brutus" like that's supposed to impress people, but those names mean nothing to me, and I work in the entertainment industry. Also, mentioning that you get over 1.5 million Google hits on the term "10 Years" to back up your argument does do you any favors - you do realize that "10 Years" is an incredibly generic term, and the majority of those hits will have absolutely nothing to do with that band? A more realistic search would be ["10 Years" +"Jesse Hasek"], which brings back only 9,350 hits, and of that, only 252 unique returns. A very big difference. TheRealFennShysa 14:51, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
I apollogize if I have offended you. I am new to Wikipedia editing, and I'm still unsure as to how things are done here. In mentioning "Harddrive" and "Lou Brutus" I wasn't trying to "impress" anyone; I just thought they were an authority in rock music. As far as the Google thing, I guess I just wasn't thinking. By the way, how do you determine how many unique hits are in a search? Lastly, I wasn't self-promoting (for those who may have thought otherwise); I honestly just thought that they were well known. Valiantineus 17:33, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
A good way to get the "unique hits" number on a search is to go to the very last page of results, where you'll see at the end of the search results this text: In order to show you the most relevant results, we have omitted some entries very similar to the 232 already displayed. If you like, you can repeat the search with the omitted results included. Also, at the top of that page will be a final tally, such as Results 231 - 232 of about 10,700 for "10 Years" +"Jesse Hasek".
"Famous to you and your friends, perhaps, but to the general populace, they're not well-known. You throw out names suchs as "Harddrive radio show" and "Lou Brutus" like that's supposed to impress people, but those names mean nothing to me, and I work in the entertainment industry."
Just because you have limited knowledge of the entertainment industry and know NOTHING of Lou Brutus or the Hard Drive radio show means NOTHING.
This is the first time I have EVER read this page, and I know who the band mentioned is, Mr. Brutus, AND the radio show. Lou Brutus also runs the punk channel, Fungus 53 on XM satellite radio. Teamgoon 13:13, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Also, the important thing to keep in mind in regards to being "well-known" is, for lack a better term, what Joe Six-Pack thinks. You may be in circles where those groups or people are very well known, and that influences your opinion - but what about the average person who doesn't know one band from another? The random person on the street? Run a little test sometime - just ask random people outside your circle of influence if they've ever heard of a particular person or group you want to include. Most of the people listed now would score very well on that test. TheRealFennShysa 19:04, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Thank you for the enlightenment and your time. Valiantineus 02:52, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Don't take it personally, Valiantineus. We were all new once! I hope you'll working on this article and other Knoxville-related articles; there's so much left to do. None of us "own" this article; TheRealFennShysa's just following Wikipedia's guidelines and policies to make sure the Knoxville article stays on track.
--A. B. 12:58, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
PS for TheRealFennShysa -- I appreciate your vigilance and your taking the time to explain stuff to newcomers.
10 Years is big in the Rock community, wither their impact is long term or short term is indifferent to the fact they are the largest current band out of Knoxville, failure to give according credit is ignorant.

What do you all think about adding Adolph Ochs, who I read about in one of Jack Neely's books, Brian Bell from Weezer, and Superdrag (or at least the lead man, John Davis?) --Awiseman 17:22, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

By default, a sort of two-tier system seems to have evolved -- a more restricted list on the article page, Famous Knoxvillians, and then a category serving as a broader list, Category:Knoxvillians. Adolph Ochs transformed the New York Times into one of the world's great newspapers, but I don't know how much of a Knoxvillian he was -- it looks as if he'd moved on to Chattanooga by age 19. I'd say Brian Bell and John Davis are fine for the broader list, but maybe not this list; have either won AMAs or Grammies?
I've thought of several other people that were important local figures in the second half of the twentieth century that should be considered for the list; some also need new or expanded articles:
  • Cas Walker built a region-wide retailing empire. He published a widely-read alternative newspaper (acerbically conservative), "The Watchdog" and hosted his own TV variety show. Although he was only mayor for a year or two, his ability to deliver a given candidate perhaps 20% to 30% of the electorate made him a major force in East Tennessee politics. He wielded this influence for at least 40 years and was the nemesis of upper crust Knoxville. On the side, he helped the careers of various country music singers, such as Dolly Parton, even introducing her A Real Live Dolly album. Throughout all of this Walker was usually controversial and always colorful.
  • Dwight Kessel was the Knox County Executive for many years and Victor Ashe's major rival until his eventual retirement. Given the scope of his job, he probably wielded more actual power than Ashe. (I'm unsure of the spelling of his last name)
  • Sheriff Tim Hutchison has long held political influence locally beyond the scope of his office.
  • James Haslam Sr.'s article could be expanded; he was a major influence, financially, behind the political scenes and the closest thing Knoxville's had to a #1 civic leader. (I don't mean to imply that local leaders don't care, it's just that the power structure is much more diffuse than in most comparably-sized cities.)
  • B. Ray Thompson Sr., coal industy entrepreneur, who became one of Tennessee's wealthiest men.
  • Jake and C. H. Butcher, Jr., banking entrepreneurs, political powers and, eventually, convicted felons. They were the driving behind the 1982 World's Fair. (By the way, that fair article is very unencyclopedic).
  • Congressman John Duncan, Sr., probably one of the country's least opposed congressmen for two decades.
From a much earlier time, Governor William Blount should be considered for the Famous Knoxvillians list.
That's my 2 cents worth for now.--A. B. 20:40, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
AB, I agree with your list yet again, I'm surprised Cas Walker's not already there! As for Superdrag, no awards, but they were pretty big for awhile - 290,000 google results. --Awiseman 21:21, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

What about Peyton Manning? I live in Knoxville and (as much as I dislike him), he's definitely a big celebrity here due to his attending the University of Tennessee. Shouldn't he be on the list? -- Fleagle11 , August 13, 2006

Manning's not a Knoxvillian - he's from Louisiana, and only went to college here; he doesn't live here now, either, so I see no reason to list him. TheRealFennShysa 14:55, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

I added Adolph Ochs to the page. He was born in Knoxville (stated on all his biographies) and I have read that he started his career in Knoxville (19 was an adult age back in the 19th century) before moving down the road to Chattanooga. Orlady 24 November 2006 (UTC)

On the subject of "Famous Knoxvillians", I posted a question/comment about the category for them at Category talk:People from Knoxville, Tennessee. I imagine that few people have that category on their watchlists, so I mention it here.--orlady 16:28, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Population Dispute[edit]

The demographics do not seem to add up to 100%. Someone should really fix this.

Anonymous - it's probably because people are of multiple races, thus it's over 100%. This is normal. Awiseman 04:19, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
You're right, it's messed up. A quick census.gov search found the real numbers, which I am putting in. Awiseman 04:23, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Marble City?[edit]

I've never heard this nickname and I lived in Knoxville for many years. My family members haven't heard of it either, and we've been in the area for a long time. I don't think it's that common, and it should be removed. Thoughts? Awiseman 18:10, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

According to the city's website, it was. LeRoi 21:45, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure it still is the nickname though. I hear "River City" used a lot more often, on the radio and TV and so on. I mean, if the city's website says it's a great place to visit, we aren't going to put "Knoxville is a great place to visit" on here. Awiseman 16:53, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Although 'Marble City' is not universally used, it is a legitimate nickname for Knoxville. It is also the name given to a particular (and older) section of Knoxville along Sutherland Avenue just west of downtown. The name 'River City' is not widely used today, but it may have formerly been used. To my knowledge, there is no prevailing nickname for Knoxville other than the youth-centric monikers "K-Town" and "Knox-vegas", which are very widely used. I have lived in Knoxville all my life, and my family before me did as well. I suppose I am a third generation Knoxvillian. Bocephusjohnson 14:20, 16 August 2006 (UTC)BocephusJohnson

'Marble City' is at least an historic nickname. I have an old tourist-y ad brochure headed "Knoxville, The Marble City". Archarin 03:18, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I think the "Marble City" bit in the city introduction is a little weird. Since it's an historical nickname, should it more correctly go in the History section. Maybe I'm just bothered that there's no good place to put the "Underwear Capital of the World" bit. Archarin 03:28, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

"Marble City" may sound quaint today, but marble was a big industry in the past. Knoxvillians were very proud of the various important buildings in Washington that incorporated "Tennessee pink marble".
Archarin, you can relax -- "Underwear capital of the world" was never a common term although it was likely a true description. Thousands worked at Standard Knitting Mills; Standard's Healthknit brand underwear was considered high quality and Standard had a high market share in the underwear business. Significantly, the underwear market did not decline as badly as many other industries during the Depression; this helped to somewhat cushion Knoxville's economy. Standard was a proud local institution for many decades; it began declining almost immediately after its local owners sold it to a Charlotte-based textiles behemoth in the late 1960s. The acquiring company turned out to have serious internal problems. Any imports came much later. --A. B. 04:49, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Sunsphere City: 21 unique Google hits. Marble City gets more, but the number is not overwhelming. On the other hand, a name that was widely in use 50 to 100 years ago would be subject to "Google bias" where a more contemporary name would not. (Note that a Google search for sunsphere and Knoxville turns up 620 unique hits)
--A. B. 15:39, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
I think we should take out Sunsphere City, I've never heard that, and 21 google hits is nothing. --Awiseman 16:03, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Oh, someone did. Well, then I think we should keep it out! --Awiseman 16:04, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Marble City: is a legitimate nickname for Knoxville. It is based on a very small area of Knoxville, but it is historic. For those that have never heard of it, it mainly reference the area of Sutherland near Concord and Safety City, close to West High School, but farther east, also near Tarleton Park. --Cooter227
Marble City is way too prominently featured for something no one has ever heard of. "K-town" has been in use for 30+ years. NoNonsenseHumJock (talk) 23:47, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Einstein Simplified Improv Comedy reverts[edit]

Guys, I need some help here. A user (User:TomMorris) keeps adding Einstein Simplified Improv Comedy to the page, as either a Site of Interest or to the Events section. I don't think it should be on either, as the Sites of Interest are actual places, like James White's Fort, and the Events are once-a-year special events, like Dogwood Arts, Boomsday, etc. I have removed the group three times over the past few days and he keeps adding them back. We had a discussion on my User_talk:Awiseman page (he doesn't have one) and that got nowhere. What do you all think? Thanks. Awiseman 21:02, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

I've removed the external links. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information, and it's not a repository of links. If something is notable enough, an article can be written about it; and then it can be listed with an internal link. LeRoi 12:06, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
I meant that I don't think Einstein Simplified should be listed, the other events are fine to me - Dogwood Festival, Greek Fest etc. Those are all legitimate special events. Awiseman 17:17, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
I think I'm going to add the events like Greekfest, Honda Hoot, etc that were taken out, what do you all think? Most don't have Wikipedia articles, but they're still pretty well attended events. Here's what I was going to add:

Awiseman 21:16, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Neighborhoods[edit]

User:LeRoi removed Concord because it's not in Knoxville, which is true, but I think there are other ways. I just noticed the above discussion ("Farragut") which had the secction renamed as "Neighborhoods and Suburbs." It's back to "Neighborhoods" now, but I think "Neighborhoods and Suburbs" is a good way to do it, since otherwise we'd have to take out Lovell, Karns, Powell, Halls, etc, because those aren't technically in Knoxville either. --Awiseman 15:37, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

My opinion is to remove any "neighborhoods" that are not in incorporated Knoxville, because this article is about the city of Knoxville. Other communities in Knox County should be listed there in the "Cities, communities, and places" section. LeRoi 15:50, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
I think they should be listed there, but also rename the section here "Neighborhoods and Suburbs", especially since most of those areas have Knoxville addresses. --Awiseman 15:52, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
I agree with Awiseman. I think our guide shouldn't be what's technically part of Knoxville, but rather what someone interested in learning about Knoxville might want to know. --Allen 00:19, 20 May 2006 (UTC)


Where is/are the boundaries for East Knoxville? —Preceding unsigned comment added by TruckTurner (talkcontribs) 17:19, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

More Famous Knoxvillians (and a few others)[edit]

I did a little digging around on Wikipedia and came up with some more names for consideration:

Some others are either less notable or have more tenuous links to Knoxville:

--A. B. 04:20, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

I added the "Knoxvillians" category to the above articles in my list above. They should appear on the Category:Knoxvillians page--A. B. 01:11, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
The first section all look fine to me, as does Tina Wesson. the rest I am reluctant to add. I don't want to list to get too long. I'm having a similar debate at Fordham University, I think that's a case of academic boosterism - they seem to be adding anybody who went to Fordham. --Awiseman 01:16, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
I don't disagree, which is why I subsequently put them all on the "Knoxvillians" page. I think that's a good place for people that either aren't quite as famous or that have more tenuous links to Knoxville (such as Thomas C. Hindman). Mostly I just posted the list above for some editor (hopefully more attuned to Wikipedia editing and this article in particular) to use as a resource.
One interesting criterion would be to ask "would this person claim Knoxville?" For instance, my impression is that Quentin Tarantino only lived here for a short time as a very small kid -- is he really a Knoxvillian even if he was born here? I don't know, but I never hear Tarantino linked with Knoxville except when I'm in Knoxville.
Note that the city government has its own list of Famous Knoxvillians which may also be useful. (Caveat: it's also very padded -- if you're famous and you've slept there, they've claimed you.) The city also has a Fun Facts About Knoxville page that might be useful to some editor.--A. B. 01:42, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
Tarantino I think we should mention, considering he mentions Knoxville a lot in his movies. --Awiseman 07:18, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
Philip Fulmer doesn't actually live in Knoxville as it says he does under nonnatives. He actually lives in Maryville, TN. Close by to Knoxville.

--Cooter227

Culture[edit]

Last week I posted the link http://knoxville.tennessee dot com/ and a couple hours later the link was taken of the site. I understand that because of spam my link was automatically taken off the site. However, the link is not spam at all and the website it corresponds with has tons of useful information on Knoxville, Tennessee. I made some changes under the culture section by adding some descriptions of the annual festivals in Knoxville. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

- This doesn't have much to do with culture. It's just a paragraph about knoxville on the front page and then a bunch of links to all of your affiliate programs. This page is not the place to post this link.

Famous Knoxvillians and Search Engine Tests[edit]

Following up on some previous discussions, here's a good note on the strength and weaknesses -- especially weaknesses -- of search engine tests: Wikipedia:Search engine test. They're especially weak when assessing historical persons and issues.--A. B. 15:18, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Legend of a "curse on Knoxville's music scene"[edit]

This paragraph was added by a newcomer (Bocephusjohnson). I believe in editing newcomer contributions "lightly" when possible, so I:

  • added a fact tag to the curse legend; if a source is not found in next several days, I'll delete; in the meantime readers are flagged that this sentence is questionable.
  • looked up details of Randy Rhoads' death. His plane crashed after leaving Leesburg, FL for Orlando so I deleted this sentence as innaccurate.
  • added a link to the section of the Hank Williams article discussing the controversy surrounding his death.
  • I deleted some unencyclopedic "opinions" but it still needs a little more work.

I will put a note on the editor's talk page explaining these changes and asking him to fix what's left.
--A. B. 12:47, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Note: The mystery surrounding Hank Williams' death is a well known part of his story. A Google search with "Hank Williams Death Knoxville" will bring up over 100,000 hits on sites mentioning this particular legend thread. These include regular (opinionated) sites, official biographical sites, and news sites (See Metro Pulse) discussing this legend. The truth is lost to history, what we have now is legend, heresay, and oral histories. These have their place all over Wikipedia and their representation is vital, as long as they are printed as versions, not necessarily fact. Also, I saw the mention on the Hank Williams page (it was one of the Google hits), kudos.Bocephusjohnson 14:31, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Update: In this week's edition of Knoxville's weekly newspaper Metro Pulse, the cover story is all about the topics I added some time ago, which were subsequently deleted. The myth is that the artists died soon after performing in Knoxville, not that they died in Knoxville. Randy Rhodes' plane may have crashed after leaving Leesburg, but his last performance was in Knoxville. What kind of fact checking do you call that? Please read the article published at this link: http://www.metropulse.com/articles/2008/18_05/coverstory.html Peace! Bocephusjohnson (talk) 00:53, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

State capital dates[edit]

In its History, Knoxville's article says it was the state capital until 1815, when it moved to Mufreesboro. Murfreesboro's article says that it became state capital in 1819. Can someone verify one or the other? Archarin 03:23, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't believe either is completely accurate. What was left out is that it was the territory capital and then the state capital for 2 periods, according to my research those dates are 1792-1812 (territory/state) and again from 1815-1817. Then it moved to Murfreesboro (1817-1843), and later Nashville -- first 1812-1815 and then 1843-present. STFmaryville 17:56, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

External links[edit]

Let's talk about this section of the article. It was looking more like a billboard than an encyclopedia, with links to city promotional material, entertainment guides, commercial web directories (listing the owners' clients), and other non-encyclopedia-like content. I "commented out" most of these, leaving the only items that I think worthy of consideration (official city site, Open Directory Project category for Knoxville, News-Sentinel, Metropulse, and the Wiki travel guide). If I had my druthers, I think I would keep only the official city site and the ODP category, but your mileage may vary. --orlady 23:13, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Population decline[edit]

I looked at a old World Book and said Knoxville had 183,000 in 1980, has the population in the city limits dropped 10,000? White flight? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.206.165.60 (talk) 11:49, 20 January 2007 (UTC).

I have not checked the data sources, but it is clear that most growth in the area has been in the unincorporated county, outside the city limits. Not white flight, but the lure of rampant suburban sprawl. --orlady 15:24, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

References in History section[edit]

I'm pleased to see references cited, but I don't consider the newly added references to be authoritative. In particular, http://www.city-data.com/us-cities/The-South/Knoxville-History.html is cut-and-paste content from another source (apparently someone at ETHS). The other sources ( http://www.tnhistoryforkids.org/ and http://mcclungmuseum.utk.edu/newpermanent/archaeology/exhibition/paleoindian.html ) are only slightly better, being highly distilled information, written for kids. The article would be more convincing if (for example) a published book were cited as a source for the same information.--orlady 22:52, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Metro Pulse Article Criticising This Wikipedia Entry[edit]

http://www.metropulse.com/articles/2007/17_07/gamut.shtml

This article seems to completely miss the point of Wikipedia. It also implies that WP makes a ton of money off of advertising (LOL). It might not hurt to gently correct these misconceptions, as Metro Pulse would seem to be the sort of publication that should appreciate Wikipedia, rather than denigrate it. 160.36.78.183 04:39, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

  • What a hoot! Thanks for highlighting that article. It should be required reading for Wikipedians who edit articles for cities, counties, etc. --orlady 05:29, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm surprised that Neely reacted that way to this article; I would have expected more sympathy for what people are trying to do here. But I'm grateful that he was willing to pick over the article and provide so many suggestions for improvement. It sounds like he might not realize that all the blue words are links, because he complains of a lack of coverage on several topics that actually have extensive articles. I wonder if he printed the article out and read it on paper? That would be an understandably frustrating experience. --Allen 06:02, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
Critics are amazng animals. They spend all there time picking things apart. This guy (his name is unimportant to me, so I didn't bother to read it) spent so much time trying to find out what was wrong with the article, that he seemes to have missed the whole point of Wikipedia: He could have used that time to make the article better! Of course, he wouldn't get paid for work, but he probably did get paid for the ariticle. Now wasn't there something about people making money off of WIkipedia? Hmmmmm looks to me like the only ones making money here are the critic and his employers. I would bet a few months from now the article has improved a lot, thanks to WIki-editors who can see past the fluffy criticism, and use it to help make a better article. But will we see a follow-up in a few months to note the improvements? I wouldn't bet on it. Critics don't usually make money giving good reviews. (THis post is written in a somewhat-sarcastic, exaggerative manner, to match the critic's tone in his piece. I'm saying this because satirists and critics usually aren't as good at taking criticism as they are at giving it!) - BillCJ 06:46, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
Here is my response to the article. I've received confirmation that it should be published in this Thursday's MP, at which point I'll point the link to their website. http://www.metropulse.com/articles/2007/17_08/incoming.shtml (updated 22 February 2007 (UTC) )
Cheers! --unknownkadath 160.36.78.173 18:55, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
Nice response! Mine would have consisted of {{sofixit}} --AW 15:02, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
I couldn't resist adding a brief paragraph and citing Neely's article as the source. If we're lucky, in a few weeks, a Google search for "Jack Neely" will bring up Wikipedia's Knoxville article in the top 5-10 results (this happened, albeit unintentionally, with Claudia Konker, an anthropologist who helped me find sources for the Cosby article).
I'll spruce up the history section this weekend. Bms4880 (talk) 21:37, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Historic Structures[edit]

Since the Knoxville, Tennessee page is an overview of the city, would it be better if I created a separate page for the historic structures rather than have them on the main page? I could then do links from Knoxville, Knox County and Farragut. My architecture background may have lead me to "overdue" the city page. I'm the newbie, so I could use your input.--Baxterguy 12:24, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't live in Knoxville (I'm in Chattanooga), but that is an awfully long list. My main question is this: are all those listed truly notable? They may be historic, but Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of lists. Given that fact that well over half of the list is redlinked, the list as it is really doesn't tell anyone anything about the buildings, or their notability, and won't mean anything to non-residents. Orlady may be able to shed some light on this, as I think she is in (or has been in) Knoxville. - BillCJ 23:42, 21 March 2007 (UT

Virtually the entire list are buildings on the National Register of Historic Places, with very few exceptions. I view any building on that list as significant. But I agree the list is getting long, and it may not be the primary purpose of the Knoxville page. It's easy to limit links to buildings that are open to the public, but a separate page with a full list may the better way to go with this. As an architect born in Knoxville, my interest may be more intense than others.--Baxterguy 16:54, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

I think a separate page would be good. Maybe include a few of the most important ones on the Knoxville page and say "See also Knoxville Historic Buildings" or whatever --AW 17:18, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
OK, Baxterguy, I understand now. I was mainly concered that this was someone just adding a bunch of old building that may recognized, but aren't really that important or notable as a whole. Given your explanation, I also agree that splitting off the list to antoehr article is the way to go, with only the major landmarks listed (they should probably have articles of their own).
As to splitting off the list to another article, you'll need to be aware that there are people on Wikipedia who don't like "indiscriminate lists", with "indiscriminate" usually meaning any list they dont like! Just be prepared, and if there is an internet site listing all thes buildings, be sure to include it as a primary sources. If not an internet one, list the published version. This should hepl to establish notability is case there ever is a problem. Good luck with the project. - BillCJ 18:46, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
I'll work on a separate page with text that breaks down the buildings into coherent clusters. My hope is to take some photos next summer, and add them to the page. There are some buildings (ie, Blount Mansion) that should remain on the Knoxville, Tennessee page. (It is a former governor's house that is open to the public.) I assume others Wikipedians will tinker with my first draft of a new page (or take a sledgehammer to it). Either way, thanks for the input. --Baxterguy 20:38, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
You're welcome. If you need any help with basic to moderate formatting issues, feel free to ask on my talk page. I was new only 7 months ag0. - BillCJ 23:43, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Nearby Attractions[edit]

I added a few nearby attractions (2 museums and a historic city), but there is a fourth item that is questionable. There is an exclusive five star resort south of Knoxville called "Blackberry Farm" (http://www.blackberryfarm.com/). I didn't want to put a commercial entry under this listing, but this is far more than a hotel. It's a resort for those with tons of money. Is this too commercial, or should it be on the list? --Baxterguy 15:23, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Cherokee name for Knoxville[edit]

Mooney (Myths of the Cherokee, p. 526) states that the Cherokee term for the Knoxville area was kuwanda'talun'yi, which translates to "Mulberry Place." Samuel Cole Williams (Memoirs of Henry Timberlake, p. 54) writes in a footnote that the Cherokee called Knoxville "Mulberry Place." What is the source for the Cherokee name for the Knoxville area being "Shacomage"? Bms4880 (talk) 20:19, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I found this article which states that "sha-co-na-qe" refers to the Great Smokies region as a whole. I changed the Cherokee name for the Knoxville area in the first paragraph to the Mooney entry, which is more specific. Bms4880 (talk) 23:37, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Sho-ka-no-hey (Shaconage_ in Cherokee means "Land of the blue smoke", which is the name for the Great Smokey Mountains area. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.159.153.179 (talk) 06:38, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Changes, Feb. 2008[edit]

I've expanded and reworded parts of the history section to make it more comprehensive, and I've divided it into subsections:

  • I corrected a few errors in the Native American history and expanded the settlement period sections— Knoxville's Downtown area still follows the early lot distribution to a significant degree
  • I expanded the antebellum section, which was extremely brief.
  • I reworded the Civil War section to span the entire war period, rather than focus on the two major engagements of the Knoxville Campaign.
  • I added considerable information on the post-Reconstruction boom. I removed most of the information regarding Welsh immigrants, since the information is covered ad verbatim in the Mechanicsville article, and it would superfluous to focus on one ethnic group out of the many pouring into Knoxville at that time.
  • I condensed the modern highlights into full paragraphs, and added information on the constant bickering between Knoxville and Knox County since the 1950s.

Feel free to pare down any section deemed too wordy or too lengthy.

Suggestions[edit]

We might expand the culture section with brief descriptions to complement the lists, especially for the sports section. We might also add a separate section for infrastructure, similar to the Providence article.

There is still plenty of room for photographs. Some possibilities:

  • The prehistoric mound on the UT campus for the "Early History" section
  • A picture of the confluence of the Holston, French Broad, and Tennessee rivers (Forks-of-the-River) for the geography section
  • The Candoro Marble Works building— I've never been there, but it's on the National Register, so there should be some sort of marker. This would be perfect for the industrial age section.
  • The Bijou Theater
  • A better Civil War-related image, and a picture of the AME Church for the Civil War section
  • A better shot of the Knox County Courthouse for the Knox County page. There is a much, much better angle of the courthouse from the courtyard of the Plaza tower (I was shooting straight into the sun that day, and only managed a silouette).

I can get to all of this, eventually, but I'm not sure when I'll be back in Knoxville, and it's only a matter of time before a News-Sentinel columnist loads the Wikipedia site to scavenge for slow news day filler.

Bms4880 (talk) 22:09, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Knoxville Journal?[edit]

I'm updating an article for a radio station that has an internal link (with no article) to a newspaper called the Knoxville Journal. It appears to exist, but isn't listed in the media section. Not being from Knoxville, I'm reluctant to add it not knowing the reasons it may be missing. Being a newspaper that claims roots back to 1839, I'm surprised there isn't an article yet on it.StreamingRadioGuide (talk) 08:54, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

It's either published on a weekly basis now or as an insert to the Sentinel...but I can't recall offhand. If it's the former it definitely needs inclusion.nf utvol (talk) 13:10, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
It's a separate weekly or biweekly, not an insert to the Sentinel. I think it's distributed free on racks. The "Media" list in the Knoxville article is also missing the alternative weekly Metropulse, which is under External links but not mentioned in the article. There are several other alternative publications in K'ville not listed in the article -- see http://www.dmoz.org/Regional/North_America/United_States/Tennessee/Localities/K/Knoxville/News_and_Media/ --Orlady (talk) 13:37, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
Added. KJ and Metropulse don't have articles, though. Perhaps a future project? nf utvol (talk) 13:55, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

List heavy![edit]

The article is getting pretty list heavy. Perhaps we should consolidate some of the lists to fewer entries and do more prose. A few of these lists require a dedicated list page, such as the notable people.

The Couch?[edit]

The NYT listed "the Couch" as a nickname for Knoxville, and it looks like someone has since put it up on the nicknames list only to have it removed. I tend to agree with the removal. Having lived in TN from age 0-23, and attending school at UT for nearly 5 years, I never once heard that term used. I suspect the author asked a random person a nickname and they returned "the Couch" as a smarta$$ remark. And, in typical fashion, they put it as fact without actually researching it.nf utvol (talk) 14:55, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

The alleged nickname was discussed extensively in the local blogosphere. The consensus is that no one ever heard of that as a nickname. See http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2008/jun/07/blogging-not-couch-yet/ and http://www.knoxviews.com/node/8108 and http://knoxvilletalks.com/2008/06/06/couching-knoxville-hidden-nickname/ --Orlady (talk) 16:30, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

No vacancy?[edit]

Anybody heard of the Tennessee Vacant Lands Act? Or is it pure fiction? Trekphiler (talk) 16:50, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Murder of Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom[edit]

Several minutes ago I added in the recent events section about the above crime, yet my edit was wrongly reverted within seconds.

It is a high-profile crime, and still receives media coverage; the trial has not yet finished. It is one of the most relevant events of this decade to have occurred in the area; therefore it must be included in the article; there is no legitimate reason to not include a reference to this horrific series of crimes against an innocent couple in this article. This article includes mention of this month's church shooting in the same section that I entered my additional info. What I typed was indisputably 100% correct and true; it definitely happened; it was a major event; it should not have been deleted.

I did not need to provide an external link, as I internally linked to the page about the double murder, which already includes good, relevant external links. There are many media articles on the internet to confirm the details further. The person who reverted by improvement to this article sent a message to my user page claiming that my edit was 'unconstructive'! However, the truth is that my edit was constructive, and his/her revert of it was unconstructive. He also claimed that I should have provided a reason for my addition in the edit summary. I stated what I had added to the article; there is only very limited space allowed in the edit summary; there is no room for a detailed explanation, not that one was actually needed anyway.

Can the person who removed the necessary, relevant information that I entered provide a legitimate reason for removing it? If not, my edit should be quickly and permanently reinstated.Werdnawerdna (talk) 22:11, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

The simple answer is because it's not supported by sources. The article on the murder indicates that charges have been laid, but nobody has been found guilty of murder or rape, nor has gang affiliation been proven. Therefore, the statement in this article is unverifiable. The second question would then be, is 18 months ago recent? —C.Fred (talk) 22:16, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

There are plenty of news reports which verify information I submitted, some of which are on the page about the double murder. Charges against members of the gang have been assigned; the trial is still ongoing because it is a complex case, and, as with all murders, the victims cannot give evidence. Additionally, courts now demand a high standard of evidence in the case of such serious crimes. The sadists who committed these appallingly sickening crimes may not previously have been part of a recognised or known gang. However, their actions were that of a gang, and they possess a substantial number of previous criminal convictions, including for violent offences; that makes them a gang, and their prolonged violence against an innocent couple a gang crime. It definitely happened: examination of the tragic couple's violated corpses proved it. In what way is any of what I added on the main page not true?

Whether or not a year-and-a-half ago is recent or not is opinion. However, the trial is still ongoing, so the trial is definitely recent, in fact, it is current. There should be a new heading, 21st century events, then the case should definitely be entered in that section permanently; it is the most notable event to have taken place in Knoxville this decade.Werdnawerdna (talk) 20:17, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

While it was a notable event in Knoxville, it is not really appropriate for a general discussion of Knoxville history. Unless it creates a major change in case law or legislation, then it does not belong. I'm not saying it wasn't appalling...it was. But then again, there are a number of appalling murders every year in the Knoxville area, and this isn't really set apart from the rest except for the rather gruesome nature of the events in question.
And I would argue that it is not the most notable event to have occurred. The recent Unitarian church shooting has garnered much more international attention, for instance.nf utvol (talk) 20:40, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

The crimes committed against this couple are far worse, and more notable, than the 'ordinary' murders that have occurred in Knoxville. Whether it brings about any change in law has yet to be seen, as the trial has not concluded. Mention of the double murder and the church shooting this summer should also be included on the article, as they are major events (in a way that most murders are not). In addition, some of the media have stated that the double torture-murder was a racially-motivated hate crime; that the church shooting was politically motivated. If true, that makes those two separate cases even more notable. Someone had submitted brief details of the church shooting, but that was quickly removed. Each caes will receive a considerable amount of further media coverage due to future reporting of legal proceedings, verdicts and sentencing. When convictions are handed down, the media are then able to, allowed to, publish far more information on the cases. If the history section is felt to be the wrong place for these important 21st century events to be mentioned, then there should be a new heading somewhere else in the article so that they can be included. Knoxville is now known for the double torture murder and the church shooting; those events should be included in the article. For the article to be as long as it currently is, yet not mention them, is a definite omission.Werdnawerdna (talk) 00:26, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

I do not disagree with the fact that the murders were heinous, and were notable crimes. However, they were not more than a blip on the national news screen. A Google news search of "Knoxville" doesn't even bring them up. Wikipedia isn't a log of crime in a city. It is an encyclopedia. As such, events like a murder that don't have a wide spread impact on the city's operation, history, or culture simply do not belong. I am not trying to cheapen or downplay the murders, just stating that a discussion of them does not belong on this page. Go look at any entry for another city that has had a double murder in which the victims were abused and bodies were disposed in unconventional ways (i.e., most likely any major city in the world) and you will most likely not find a discussion or mention of it in the article. It simply does not belong.nf utvol (talk) 02:37, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Of course the large majority of crimes within any city should not be individually mentioned. However, many articles on cities have a crime section, many of whom mention specific notable crimes, as well as general statistics and/or trends. For some cities there is a separate article about crime there. A long article about a quite small city, where events such as the double murder in question and the church murders are not a common occurrence, should include a brief description of both series of events; they should include links to the articles on those events. Many of the people who have heard of the murders are unaware of the couple's names, hence they will not readily be able to find the page on the murders - unless they are mentioned on the Knoxville main page, with the inclusion of an internal link.Werdnawerdna (talk) 22:23, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Recent events[edit]

Orlady makes a valid point— this is an encyclopedia article, not a news service. However, Wikipedia does allow more leeway for current events than standard encyclopedias allow. Is there a standard for what's considered notable enough to include in an article of this size? Obviously, we can't include every single news-worthy event. Bms4880 (talk) 13:42, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Knoxvegas[edit]

Replacing the "-ville" with "-vegas" in a city's name is not uncommon for most any city with the suffix "-ville" in its name. While I've heard "Knoxvegas" many times, I've also heard "Nashvegas," "Ashevegas," "Huntvegas," etc., many times. Is there any reason to list something that generic as a nickname? Bms4880 (talk) 17:42, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

For the reasons you cite, "City-vegas" nicknames are routinely expunged from List of city nicknames in the United States‎ and related articles. --Orlady (talk) 17:54, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

John Watts and Knoxville[edit]

John Watts and the Cherokee did not invade Knoxville in 1792; that year they invaded the Cumberland and attacked Buchanan's Station. Furthermore, the attack on Cavett's Station by the thousand-strong army of Cherokee, Muscogee, and Shawnee which he led intending to attack Knoxville, resulted in the deaths of everyone in the Station due to the violation of their safe conduct Watts and Bob Benge had given them by the band of warriors under Doublehead. I have therefore removed those seious errors from the article. Chuck Hamilton (talk) 12:02, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Not only was it incorrect, it was apparently plagiarized from this page on the City of Knoxville's website, which had in turn confused several points from that 19th-century article. I failed to catch it and remove it when I overhauled the article's history section a few months ago. Bms4880 (talk) 18:27, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

No problem. I happened to run across it while working on the Chickamauga wars and have that information coming out of my ears, so it's not surprising that leap out at me where it might someone else. Chuck Hamilton (talk) 21:41, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Great job, guys![edit]

I started editing this page some time ago in hopes of giving a little more background on our fair city, but those that came after the fact REALLY jazzed up this thing. Excellent information abounds! Thanks a lot for the hard work, editors! Knoxville appreciates you! :-) 67.187.111.107 (talk) 13:07, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback. I'm currently working on Knoxville-related articles, and I'll add some more to this article in a few weeks. Bms4880 (talk) 22:20, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Hardin Valley[edit]

Is this in Knoxville's city limits? If not, it should be moved to the MSA section. Bms4880 (talk) 20:24, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Households[edit]

I've removed this section from the demographics section as no source was provided:

During the 1990s, growth in the number of households averaged 3,575 a year. The number of renter households grew by an average annual increase of 600 during the 1990s compared to an average annual increase of 900 from 2000 to the Current date. From 2000 to the Current date, the total average annual household growth was 3,925. Average annual household growth is expected to continue increasing by 4,300 through the forecast period and total 262,800 as of April 1, 2008. Since 1990, average household size in the HMA has been decreasing steadily. This decrease can be attributed to a growing number of students and retirees and to an overall demographic shift toward smaller families.

WTF? (talk) 18:21, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Port authority?[edit]

Does Knoxville have a port authority, or some entity that manages river traffic? Bms4880 (talk) 03:23, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

New info[edit]

There's been quite a bit of info added to this article, and that's excellent. However, much of it is being added in the form of short subsections to main sections (such as in the economy and transportation sections). While this is generally acceptable in terms of quickly adding content to an article, such short subsections are actually disfavored at the higher levels of article review (such as at WP:GAN and WP:FAC). It's much better to try and integrate all the content into well-written paragraphs about the main sections, only including subsections when there's a really large amount of info and its absolutely necessary. For example, for a city with only four bridges, why is there an entire subsection on bridges? This is better integrated into a description of the roads and transportation system connecting everything. However, a city like Pittsburgh might focus on bridges more, since there are over 400 there. WTF? (talk) 17:40, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

I don't agree at all. I was largely following what various other city articles were doing, to make it consistent. I felt that subsections would help readers find information more quickly. If you believe a single section with a giant mess of 15 paragraphs is more readable than one with subsections, then be my guest at redoing it. I'm not changing it. Bms4880 (talk) 18:24, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
Might want to take a look at WP:USCITY guidelines, which cover aspects of a city article as it progresses from the C-class toward B and WP:GA and WP:FA rankings. If you want the article to be eternally C/B class, by all means, use as many short and stubby subsections as possible. But such organization is really better suited to an almanac, or a random collection of information about a topic. We're actually writing an encyclopedia here, and we should strive towards achieving "brilliant prose" characteristic of such articles. WTF? (talk) 19:12, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
Subsectioning removed. Is it now less offensive to the delicate sensibilities of the GA nomination crowd? Bms4880 (talk) 19:46, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

It's not quite as easy simply removing subsection headers lickety split. I know you wish it was, but good prose takes time to develop. These subsections should be integrated together with well-written paragraphs covering an overall topic. I am happy to help with this, but I don't want to make changes if they're just going to be reverted like you did the the media and popular culture section. WTF? (talk) 20:08, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

I didn't revert your edit, I restored updated information that you deleted. Maybe you prefer the 2007 numbers to the current ones, or maybe you prefer the statement, "There are also a wide variety of radio stations in the Knoxville area, catering to many different interests, including news, talk radio, and sports, as well as an eclectic mix of musical interests" to the more useful information on radio market ranking and a brief description of the radio stations. I don't know. Bms4880 (talk) 20:28, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
Some subsections are, in fact, quite useful and very important. Instead of just yanking them all out, or leaving them all in, it's much better to expand those that are expandable, compress those that are compressible, and leave others as they are. If there's a subsection about a particular item that is important, but is easily described in one or two paragraphs, then by all means, it should be left as such. Expanding for the sake of expanding, and contracting for the sake of contracting is rarely productive. The bridges section could be included with the roads and highways section, but the history section should probably stay subdivided as it is. nf utvol (talk) 20:15, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
Point out which subsections need to go, Nfutvol, and I'll see what I can do. I'll go ahead and ditch the bridge one. Bms4880 (talk) 20:28, 31 January 2012 (UTC)