Talk:Konrad Zuse

Improving the introduction

Currently the introduction reads: "His greatest achievement was the completion of the first functional tape-stored-program-controlled computer, the Z3, in 1941." This sounds as if there were other computers that maybe stored their programs in a different way. Of course there weren't any. I'll correct this: "His greatest achievement was the completion of the first functional program-controlled computer, the Z3, in 1941 (the program was stored on a tape)." Science History 13:15, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

The intro also says:"The Z3 is claimed to be the "first computer" as such, though this depends on complex and subtle definitional issues, as the machine was not truly general-purpose in the manner of later machines (see the article of history of computing for a thorough discussion)." This is obsolete for at least two reasons. 1. The Z3 was Turing-complete and therefore truly general purpose (in an inconvenient way like the Turing machine itself). 2. The article on the history of computing does not have a thorough discussion. Science History 14:07, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Calculating Space

The section says:

In 1967 Zuse also suggested that the universe itself is running on a grid of computers (digital physics); in 1969 he published the book Rechnender Raum (translated by MIT into English as Calculating Space, 1970). Since the publication of Stephen Wolfram's book A New Kind of Science, this idea has attracted a lot of attention, since there is no compelling physical evidence against Zuse's thesis. Critics of Wolfram's work claim that the fundamental ideas are essentially due to Zuse.

This is quite misleading - the idea attracted a lot of attention long before Wolfram wrote something about it in 2002. The movie The Matrix (1999) was perhaps the most popular work on the idea that the perceptible world is computed by a computer program. The well-known articles of Edward Fredkin (1980s) and Juergen Schmidhuber (1990s) on the computable universe also predate Wolfram. I'll try to correct this. Science History 11:29, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

The copy needs improvement.

As of 29 July 2007, it is obvious that (1) at least the first section was written by someone whose native language is German (no native English speaker would write "the inventor of the Computers" -- and capitalizing "Computers" is also a giveaway) and (2) a Zuse advocate.

I am going to make take care of this. Jhobson1 16:10, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

172.173.164.166 made that change

info on the IP you are talking about:

OrgName: America Online

OrgID: AOL

Address: 22000 AOL Way

City: Dulles

StateProv: VA

PostalCode: 20166

Country: US

not exactly in Germany, 217.236.230.194 21:31, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

First computer 'sold'

I would go along with the most recent edit, BINAC was sold in the same sense that the Z4 was, and earlier - the Ferranti was sold as a production machine (multiple copies), but the Z4 was like BINAC in being a single machine shipped to a customer Hpengwyn (talk) 22:33, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Last Zuse computer

Z43 is the last computer by Konrad Zuse: http://mail.computerhistory.org/pipermail/inforoots/2004-June/001356.html Article already mentions that. 91.94.200.48 (talk) 20:18, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

The artist Konrad Zuse

The artist Konrad Zuse

A first selection of Konrad Zuse´s paintings was published by RT-Distribution as fine art prints and introduced to the public at artexpo New York (USA) in 1994. On June 20 i.e. 21, 1995 the first internet page about artist and computerpioneer Konrad Zuse went online (http://www.rtd-net.de/Zuse.html) at Eunet Dortmund, Germany. This also was the Online-Premiere of Galeria Non+Ultra (http://www.Galeria-NonplusUltra.com), which shows art by Konrad Zuse and other artists.

These facts including the weblinks should be added to the article about Konrad Zuse. RTD, Nov 20, 2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.1.122.6 (talk) 13:04, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Archiving

Does anyone object to me setting up automatic archiving for this page using MiszaBot? Unless otherwise agreed, I would set it to archive threads that have been inactive for 30 days and keep ten threads.--Oneiros (talk) 23:33, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Y Done--Oneiros (talk) 21:25, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Introduction wrong

Last part of the first sentence is ‘[..] was a [..] computer pioneer who collaborated with the German government during World War 2, which helped finance his projects.’ In fact, the German government never gave him support or a chance to finish his work (see article at ARTE) and even wanted to conscript him, because they didn't recognize benefits from his Z1..Z3 (see also Z3 (computer) and Hans-Willy Hohn (1998) (in German). Kognitive Strukturen und Steuerungsprobleme der Forschung. Kernphysik und Informatik im Vergleich. Schriften des Max-Planck-Instituts für Gesellschaftsforschung Köln. ISBN 3-593-36102-7. (literally "not war-important")) --Cvf-ps (talk) 11:47, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

I've deleted that part because it's actually wrong. Here is a link, however only in German language, and here it is mentioned that he wasn't financially supported by the Goverment. It seems that he would have collaborated, but didn't get the chance – see the last section in the German link. --Cyfal (talk) 19:38, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

In the source cited at reference #3 it states he was conscripted into the military, where he was given the resources to build the Z2 and Z3. The source cited at reference #7 states the Third Reich's Aerodynamic Research Institute funded his work. In the source cited at reference #4 at p. 489, it states the Z3 was a highly secretive project of the German government. In his own autobiography, cited at reference #6 at p.76, he acknowledges the war secrecy the German government invoked over his work. At p.61 from his autobiography he writes he received a contract for his work from the Aerodynamic Research Institute, which was funded by the German government. At p. 60 he writes his Hs 293 was deployed by the German military. At the source cited at reference #9 it clearly states Zuse completed his work for the German military. This would make the introduction line "who collaborated with the German government during World War 2, which helped finance his projects" completely factual. The line should actually read "who collaborated with the Nazi Germany, which supported, financed, and deployed his projects," because he started working with them as early as 1939. Because the German government didn't support his computer idea based on electronic valves because of immediacy reasons doesn't dispel the fact they supported many of his other projects. You also have to be careful of denazification revisionist sources, which are no longer academically credible.

Ferocious osmosis (talk) 09:52, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Factual correctness aside, the intro seems slightly biased. The first sentence should describe the reasons for Zuse's notability (which are his achievements in computing) instead of giving a political evaluation. Also, per Merriam-Webster, collaborate means to cooperate with or willingly assist an enemy of one's country and especially an occupying force. One cannot collaborate with his own country. --Tgr (talk) 05:37, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Well, anglosaxon Wikipedia is a pathetic anti-German joke anyway, full of fucking propaganda and achievement-theft, cultural theft and often laying claim to various German technological achievements (see the MP3 article for example; a well-known German invention but made "american" by way of obfuscation and unnecessary complexity; tricky bastards) and biased allegations unseen in cases of other nations. Fucking pathetic.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.166.212.214 (talk) October 5, 2010

Dictionaries give the pejorative meaning of 'collaborate' as second to the simple one of 'to work with another or others on a joint project', which is what the etymology implies ('co' - together 'labor' - work). So one can collaborate with one's own country or government. However, given that the initiative was his, not the German government's, the introduction could be more neutrally worded. --TedColes (talk) 07:03, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Cooperation then. Collaboration implies secrecy as every native speaker can tell. The sentence in question: Many of his projects were in collaboration with the Nazi Germany, which supported, financed, and deployed many of them --> Nazi Germany supported and deployed some of his projects. Looks like the ridiculous allegation that it actually is. Sure you anglosaxon anti-German propaganda clowns want that?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.166.212.214 (talk) October 5, 2010

All scientists must be slightly daft

This sentence: "This idea has attracted a lot of attention, since there is no physical evidence against Zuse's thesis" seems to me quite mad. I refer you to the celestial tea pot, against which there is no evidence. Now maybe Zuse was a bit mad or whatever, but this form suggests that all the scientists in their white coats ran around worried, until some normal person told them that it's quite unlikely that Zuse be right.

If the idea was indeed controversial, provide some tangible measure and back up the reasons for it with some evidence. If nobody can be bothered to do so, a better form would be: "The idea sparked some discussion (by whom?)." Better still would be to strike the sentence all together. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.130.87.144 (talk) 06:20, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Konrad Zuse in Popular Culture

In the movie Tron: Legacy a program named Zuse appears. As there is nobody/nothing else named Zuse that has been important to computer history, it is likely that the program is named after Konrad himself.

Should this be included on the page, or should we wait until we have more references?

Sorry for using an IP, apparently user accs aren't shared between localisations of Wikipedia.

90.230.80.104 (talk) 22:39, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

I think they're trying to get rid of "popular culture" trivia sections on WP, right?

You might add it to the Tron article, though.

98.214.101.208 (talk) 00:31, 8 January 2012 (UTC)