Talk:Koreans in Japan

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"Japananese"?[edit]

NOT A PASS NAME. ITS CALLED " ALIAS". PLEASE CHANGE MISINFORMED INFORMATION. KOREANS IN JAPAN USE " ALIAS" JAPANESE NAMES. NOT PASS NAMES. THERE IS STRONG MISCONCEPTION. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Truepedia (talkcontribs) 07:16, 24 October 2010 (UTC)



Seriously? I thought this was a simple typo, but "Korean Japanese" is a redirect to "Japanese Korean". What gives? —Mhari* 22:17, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

User:Crystalclearchanges is trying to "standardise" every immigrant ethnic group page on Wikipedia into made-up names along the lines of Italian American, and left behind a trail of misspellings, copy-paste moves, etc. User:HongQiGong and I have reverted most of the changes made on the Korean diaspora series, since there's sort of a consensus about what these should be called, and per WP:NC(CN), it's not "Korean Fooian". cab (talk) 02:10, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Right to vote & government employment[edit]

The section in question reads:

[quote]So far, three prefectures - Osaka, Nara and Kanagawa - have granted voting rights to permanent foreign residents. However, the Japanese Diet has not yet passed a resolution regarding this matter despite several attempts by political parties to do so, and there is considerable public and political opposition against granting voting rights to those who have not yet adopted Japanese nationality[endquote] .


I think this information is out of date, though. To begin with, the regional High Courts, and the Supreme Court, in a series of suits and appeals, have rejected the right to vote lawsuits from the zainichi. I think the law is pretty clear, these days, - no sufferage for zainichi at national elections. Is the author of the above alluding to local prefectural elections? If so, I think zainichi are also denied the right to vote there too. Is there a citation for the author’s claim? Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.27.250.213 (talk) 07:17, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, no one did anything about it or supported the statement with a citation. In any event I'm pretty certain it's wrong so I changed it. Osaka, Nara and Kanagawa cannot "grant" voting rights to non-citizens unilaterally, even in prefectural elections. Their motions to do so were struck down by the courts, so it's not true to say that they "granted" any voting rights. 122.27.250.213

Category:Anti-Korean sentiment in Japan[edit]

"Category:Anti-Korean sentiment in Japan" should be deleted. This category is just only Koreans in Japan. Certainly, Some Koreans in Japan made criminals and made Anti-Korean sentiment, however most of all are good people. The word "Koreans in Japan" do not directly suggest Anti-Korean sentiment in Japan.--Bukubku (talk) 11:36, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Do not use such inflammatory and insulting language. According to your logic, Japan did commit such tremendous war crimes like abducting and forcefully dragging Koreans into Japan for hard labor and then slaughtered and mascared Koreans like Kanto Earthquake, and their descendants have been remained in Japan. Besides, they're still main subject of severe discriminationper this book sources, so the category is very legitimate one to stay.--Caspian blue 21:58, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
CB, my English is elementary level sorry. Oh, I thought you might have hate Zainichi Koreans, because you added the category so many times. Now I am at ease, you are not racist. My Zainichi Korean friends were descendant of refugee from Jeju masscres. They still feel discrimination from South Koreans. And They have terrors of South Koreans. According to my logic? Korean labor draft was started in 1944, after Kanto Earthquake occured. Anyway I think Kanto Earthquake is very sad incident for Koreans. They are not discriminated now generally. According to your logic, Korean American was discriminated in US, for example Los Angeles riots. According to your logic, Korean Vietnamese was discriminated in Vietnam,for example Lai Daihan. Do you recommend me to create new section like you? I don't want to do so. Anyway I think "Category:Anti-Korean sentiment in Japan" should be deleted.--Bukubku (talk) 15:40, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
Bukubku, do not call me CB unless I say it's okay for you to do so; You're not my friend. The insertion of the legitimate category has nothing to do with my own feeling. Encyclopedia should be based on facts, sources. Then according to the "so-call your logic", you must hate Korea so much given the fact that your contribution history. Now, you're attacking me as "I'm a racist" (you already did attack with such outrageous accusation on other places). You also altered info regarding the time in which a majority of Koreans were moved to Japan. You falsified that it was during the Korean War, not the period of Japanese occupation. You altered the info without any source. Thankfully, somebody fixed your erroneous edits here thought with sources. I think you must re-read history books. The forced draft began during the WW2, not started in 1944 almost at the end of the war. Moreover, this article is not Vietnamese in Korea, United States or Japan , so do not mix irrelevant things here. Regarding your friend, you also did not provide any sources". So in turn, you have no plausible rationale for your removal but just the insistence like "I think Category:Anti-Korean sentiment in Japan should be deleted."--Caspian blue 16:18, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Look these cabinet decisions, these are primary source. Japanse labor draft started in 1939.[1] However, Korean labor draft was exempted until 1944.[2]--Bukubku (talk) 17:24, 13 December 2008 (UTC) why?why the text is different between in Japanese version and English one! I think the people who write the article understand that some of the article which is only Japanese version will be problem or very very embarrassing in international understanding. I felt very very sick to be japanese, Not be embarrassed me!!!!! idiot!!

Well, usage of primary sources should always be very cautious and given your false usages of such sources to Empress Myeongseong and others, I must look carefully into your sources. Regardless of the forced draft, your rationale still fails to prove that the category should be deleted. Besides, not every minority was slaughtered by Japanese like Koreans when 1923 Great Kantō earthquake occurred. Many academic research provide examples of discrimination to Koreans in Japan, so the category at the article is legitimate.--Caspian blue 17:32, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
Well, usage of primary sources should always be very cautious is good. I know well your false usages of tertiary sources to Queen Min and others. Read cautiousiy. According to your rational, Japanse people (and Min clans) were slaughtered by Koreans when 임오군란(壬午軍亂) occured. According to Kim Jong-il, nowadays many Japanse abducted by Koreans. Many academic research provide examples of discrimination to Japanese in Korea. Anyway, do you recommand me to categorize Korean American, Korean Vietnamese like you?--Bukubku (talk) 10:27, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
Well, I'm talking about your disruptive behaviors on your usage of primary sources. I've never done such malpractices like you did. You always ended up to admit your lies in several occasions. Do not divert the main topic on Koreans in Japan but show some coherent evidence. Well, the article is not Koreans in Korea, but Koreans in Japan. Keep focus. You always fail to provide any logic.--Caspian blue 16:56, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Have you read those sources about draft?--Bukubku (talk) 03:41, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Academic sources are already presented for abductions of Koreans , so what else need to?--Caspian blue 20:58, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Abducted Korean descendant Park shigenori became Japanse Minister for Foreign Affairs. Did abducted Japanese by Koreans succeed in Korea?--Bukubku (talk) 06:30, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

RfC: Should Category:Anti-Korean sentiment be deleted?[edit]

I believe that Koreans in Japan have been primary subjects of discrimination in Japanese history and society which are all addressed in the article, so this pertinent category is relevant to the article, but user named Bukubku does not think so. Please leave your input here. Thanks.--Caspian blue 18:32, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

List of famous Koreans in Japan[edit]

What purpose does it serve to include "Crime" as the second listed category for famous Koreans in Japan? This is extremely antagonistic and serves only to perpetuate stereotypes that are false and socially damaging. There is simply no context in which this should be considered acceptable. Including this contributes nothing useful, it only serves those who wish to perpetuate their prejudiced views. I suggest the entire section be removed completely. 207.171.180.101 (talk) 02:02, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

There's a section on criminals for the list of famous Italian Americans.--164.67.232.230 (talk) 01:20, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

There is no such list today, so, they must have removed it. I did the same for this page (I wasn't registered, did it afterwards) because there's no such list on any other "X decendants in Y country" page. Sege44 (talk) 20:12, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
Removing inconvenient facts and leaving convenient facts is against WP:NPOV Your argument is invalid. See List of Italian Americans#Criminals. Main article is List of Italian American mobsters. Also see List of French Americans#Criminals and List of Americans of English descent#Assassins, outlaws and criminals. The criteria of inclusion is dependent on the situation of each country. Please note that a significant portion of the constituent member of Yakuza is Koreans in Japan. ―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 20:14, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
First of all, the argument would only be invalid if we were talking about "List of X". In other words, List of Norwegians, List of Austrians etc. then yes, you would be right and I would be wrong. What I'm refering to, on the other hand, is the front page - Koreans in Japan, Austrians, Italian Americans, Norwegians etc.
My point is that I want the articles to hold the same standard. Remove "Criminals" from the front page of this one, the japanese etc, but keep them on the "List of X".Removing them from those pages would, as you said, not hold true to the WP:NPOV and would be whitewashing.I believe the Italian American Talk Page had such a discussion: [[3]] See "Arbitrary Substitution of Notables". Of course, they were discussing the pictures of notables, but the point is the same.
I quote from the discussion: "...should respect the sensibilities of Italian Americans, who view Al Capone as a murderous thug, rather than trying to raise him up to the level of a notable, representative in some way of Italian Americans"
Finally:
Is this censorship? Yes, but don't complain to me, complain to the other authors on the other pages. I just want a common standard. PS. Please note that a significant portion of the constituent member of Yakuza is Koreans in Japan. True, but that's a rather flawed argument. Using that argument one could argue for the inclusion of "Notable Nazi Collaborators" on every "Citizens of country X" page that were involved in World War 2.
Sege44 (talk) 12:58, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
There is no list of notable people in Austrians, Italian Americans, Norwegians. They have a dedicated "List of xxx" article. So your argument doesn't make sense.
There is no standard in Wikipedia not to list criminals in the front page article. It is a reverse argument of WP:OTHERSTUFF, i.e. "There is no other stuff like this, So it should be removed". As I said above, removing unfavorable people while leaving only favorable people is against WP:NPOV regardless whether the article is a front page or a list page.
Anyway, I noticed the section Notable Koreans and Japanese citizens of Korean descent in Japan was completely copied to List of Zainichi Koreans which was created recently. Fortunately, there is no edit to the section since then, the whole section should be simply removed and List of Zainichi Koreans should be added to "See also" section. ―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 22:53, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
Sege44, the example articles are irrelevant to this article. The article equivalent to Austrians and Norwegians is Koreans and to Italian Americans is Korean American. Sorry, but I find no rationale in your claim. Oda Mari (talk) 05:51, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
Oda Mari - Ok, technicalities are important. Would the argument still hold true if I changed my examples from Austrians and Norwegians to Italian Americans, Korean Americans etc. ?
Phoenix7777: Talking about technicalities: Austrians, Italian Americans and Norwegians have notables. They're in the picture on the right side. As I said above, removing unfavorable people while leaving only favorable people is against WP:NPOV regardless whether the article is a front page or a list page. True, but why isn't Bonnie and Clyde, Jesse James or Lee Harvey Oswald on the front page of the English American? What about Al Capone on the Italian American page? Isn't this, as you put it, against the rules? To remove unfavourable people and only leave good ones?
If that is your argument and you stand by it, then you should take this discussion over to the Italian American Talk page and the English American. After all, they are hiding the facts. If not, then why should this page, the Japanese page or any other page have their criminals on the front page when other, more famous crimminals, are swept under the rug and placed on the "List of xxx".
All I'm asking for is consistency Sege44 (talk) 12:33, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

As I said above, your argument is based on a reverse argument of WP:OTHERSTUFF, i.e. "There is no other stuff like this, So it should be removed". Any policy or Guideline support such an argument. Please ask to the Italian American Talk page and the English American why criminals are not in the picture by yourself.

I removed the list as I explained above. ―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 23:00, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

Move to Korean in Japan: There is no plural for Korean[edit]

Like most ethnic group, Korean doesn't have a plural in English dictionary. In Merriam Webster, Korean, is defined as native of Korea. There's no entry of Koreans. Likewise, there's no plural of Indian(s), Chinese (Chineses) Japanese(Japaneses) etc. Therefore, to move Koreans in Japan to Korean in Japan, which is more grammatically safe and ethnically acceptable, shouldn't cost much or hurt anybody's feeling, I hope. Clari 2010 (talk) 14:15, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Hi Clari. Korean in Japane would refer to a single Korean. It is not appropriate.--Jondel (talk) 07:38, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Plurality of Japanese, Koreans and Indians[edit]

Anyon haseyo! Adding 's' or 'es' to a word that ends in s already for plurality ,makes it sound funny please believe me. Thus

'Koreans' and Indians is ok.

Japanese's' is not ok.

Japanese is both plural and singular.

'Koreans' and Indians are both plural only.--Jondel (talk) 07:34, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Who is this article about?[edit]

The opening sentence implies it is about ethnic Koreans (including Japanese citizens) but the rest of the intro implies it is about Korean nationals residing in Japan. If the latter, then can we get clarification on the citizenship of the "examples" pictured in the infobox (Ms. Mizusawa et al)? Because if they are Japanese citizens, even if the article is about ethnic Koreans, the accompanying text appearing to describe them as "Zainichi" is ... well, the kind of thing that bigots would accuse me of being "politically correct" for trying to change. Hijiri 88 (やや) 10:26, 2 January 2015 (UTC)