Talk:Kosher salt

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Is "nearly all salt" really kosher?[edit]

Could you explain why all salt is kosher? Thanks. 68.3.216.218

I'm not intimate with the technicalities of Jewish dietary law, but I suspect that the answer is similar to the following:
Ironically, nearly all salt could be kosher, were its production to be supervised by an appropriate rabbinical authority; there is nothing inherent in the production of salt that is non-kosher.
But we really need a subject matter expert to come along and bless one version or the other :-). Atlant 11:52, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
I read once that it had to do with the whitening process, and if it used bone, and if so, what animals the bone came from. But I'm no expert. I also read that it often still contains anti-caking additives. FireWorks 22:12, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
Like all minerals and plants, salt is kosher. However during processing, if it comes in contact with anything not kosher it can become not kosher. The role of the rabbi is to make sure that doesn't/didn't happen. Also any additives need to be checked (where did they come from, anything non kosher in them?). Basically, 'salt is kosher' because there is nothing in it that is not kosher. Kosher is actually defined by the reverse - if it doesn't have anything in it that is not kosher, then the default is 'kosher'. The list of what is not kosher is very specific, and I'm sure wikipedia has an article on it elsewhere. Ariel. 21:03, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
Kosher foods Potatoswatter 01:14, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Why "Kosher" salt?[edit]

Why is it called Kosher salt? Is there any historical context like when it was first called that and by whom.

It's used to make meat Kosher by removing the blood from the meat (or so I've heard). If that's really true and the article doesn't already say that, someone should add it. Atlant 20:32, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
The article half said it; I've now completed the thought. Atlant 20:37, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
Techincally it's actually called 'Koshering salf', not 'Kosher salt'. Ariel. 21:03, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
"or more correctly, koshering salt". If this is true, perhaps the name of the article should be changed to koshering salt, with something like "commonly referred to as kosher salt" at the beginning, and kosher salt as a redirect. Also, in an absence of protest, I'm removing the food network line. 67.160.147.2 (talk) 19:06, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I've lived in the US all my life (and I'm nearly sixty), and I've been Jewish all my life, and I have hardly ever heard it called "koshering salt". I think the article should be under the name that is most often used for it. Google gives about 653,000 hits for "kosher salt" (in quotation marks to search for the phrase, not just both words) and about 769 for "koshering salt". -- I've added a redirection page "Koshering salt". If anyone looks for it under that name (which I think unlikely), they'll be redirected here. I'm also changing the description of the term, since "koshering salt" might be more accurate but is probably just confusing, since almost nobody uses it. -- Thnidu (talk) 00:41, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

The Food Network[edit]

Shouldn't the 'Food Network' extra be removed? It doesn't do much to help the article's informality. That's like putting a link to Harmon Kardon or Dolby on a speaker Wikipedia link. The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.25.101.18 (talk • contribs) .

Relative Volume of Kosher v Regular Salt[edit]

I'm changing the reference to doubling the amount of salt called for in a recipe if using kosher instead of table. The average grain size of kosher salts can vary considerably from one brand to another. I will change it to reflect the difference. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.74.195.60 (talk) 21:26, 11 December 2006 (UTC).

Manufacturing[edit]

Do you have any information you could add that explains how Kosher salt is manufactured that makes it different from table salt? Is it mined, evaporated, what? Thanks. 69.232.79.251 12:52, 19 January 2007 (UTC)Sandy]

  • I think its just the size of crystals. Its not ground as fine. Donkay ote 08:51, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
I don't think it's ground at all: "Kosher salt has a much larger grain size than regular table salt, and a more open granular structure." Come to think of it, I was reading that as "crystal structure". What does "more open granular structure" mean? -- Thnidu (talk) 00:53, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Iodine content belongs in the article?[edit]

Could someone please clue me in as to why the paragraph about iodine is needed? I could understand mentioning that kosher salt has (or does not have) iodine, but shouldn't a dissertation and a link belong in the Salt article? Thanks, GlobeGores 22:04, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

  • I looked in my pantry at a box of Morton's iodized table salt and a box of Diamond Crystal (non-iodized) "Kosher salt". Both are labelled as kosher.

Barnaby the Scrivener (talk) 20:06, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Also, this paragraph contains a link that was previously removed by Ariel. , for being "unrelated to kosher salt". Is this link okay? Sincerely, GlobeGores 22:12, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

I, too, felt it should be removed. TJFox (talk) 16:30, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Americanism?[edit]

I've finally found out what kosher salt is! It's coarse cooking salt. I've never heard the term outside the USA, and had thought it was some kind of yuppie thing. Does anybody know of the use of the term outside North America? Groogle (talk) 06:12, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, it should be mentioned it is an American term. It isn't used anywhere else as a general term.
It's a nonsensical Americanism and it should be deleted promptly.92.252.90.81 (talk) 12:50, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

"leach"[edit]

The article says

the salt remains on the surface of the meat longer, allowing fluids to leach out of the meat.

That link is to a disambiguation page. None of the processes described in any of those articles mention using a solid to remove a solute from a substance; they all refer to using a liquid, or to processes that all occur above the boiling point of water. Neither do any of the definitions in Merriam-Webster (leach, 2, verb) or the Oxford English Dictionary. Wiktionary has one definition,

(transitive) To purge a soluble matter out of something by the action of a percolating fluid.

which pretty well summarizes most of the M-W and OED senses. Changing the verb to "draw out", as used by [1]. -- Thnidu (talk) 00:31, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

It's an osmotic process. The salt creates a high concentration of solute on the outside of the cell membranes which draws fluid out. The word leach was actually OK. It's a variant of "leech" and "leech" has an intransitive verb sense meaning "to drain a substance of". It's fine to make this sort of change as you see fit though, without a talk page discussion. Be bold. Gigs (talk) 04:15, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Food and drink Tagging[edit]

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"British" term?![edit]

In Britain it's known as cooking salt or rock salt. For centuries, the British Isles have been fundamentalist Christian, and would NEVER have used the term "koshering". There was no Jewish taboo against eating blood. It's a foreign concept. The British "Black Pudding" is almost entirely blood. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.171.129.74 (talk) 09:34, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't call the population of the British Isles "fundamentalist Christian" and Jews have a long history in the UK (see: List_of_British_Jews ). On the other hand I don't think a link to a site which sells a product called "koshering salt" in UK Pounds really demonstrates that this is a British term.

Nolandda (talk) 23:06, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

You're both missing the point. British Jews or non Jews who know about it (tradesmen, suppliers etc) call it "koshering salt", not "kosher salt". That's all. --Dweller (talk) 13:21, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
To this end, I've removed the confusing "British term" wording, which was repetitive anyway. --Dweller (talk) 16:22, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
It's known as rock salt in the UK. I've never heard of kosher(ing) salt, and looking at a couple of on-line supermarkets they only sell rock salt.ƕ (talk) 11:52, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
Try a Google-UK-only search for "koshering salt" -- 132 results. "kosher salt" gives 9500, and "rock salt" 65000. I know proof by Google is no good, but the reference I deleted was just a single recipe -- hardly evidence of geneneral usage! ƕ (talk) 11:57, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
Most UK kosher establishments have weak or no internet presence, so this is hardly surprising. Further, your POV that a RS was "just a single recipe" is irrelevant. And to boot, you actually blanked two sources, not one, the second of which is an industry source. --Dweller (talk) 12:53, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Remove the reference to koshering salt in Britan as this is a term NEVER used by the general population. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.28.206.253 (talk) 20:55, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Should we also remove any entries that mention transubstantiation, as this is also a term not used by the general population? --Dweller (talk) 23:32, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
No, but if something is described as "usually" then I think it is sensible to use the term that is usually used. As a forty-something British citizen, I had never heard the term Koshering salt until I read the entry today. I have amended the entry accordingly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.111.27.50 (talk) 11:38, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Whoever it was that said that there's no Jewish taboo against eating blood was talking nonsense. Look at Genesis 9:4 and see what it says. Jewish tradition has always held that this prohibits the eating of blood, and that's why koshering meat requires drawing the blood out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.109.159.54 (talk) 20:10, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Page move[edit]

I've initiated discussion with the editor who moved this page at his talk page. I'd appreciate it if no-one edit warred on moving it backward and forward until consensus emerges. --Dweller (talk) 10:32, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

the original title i moved this article from in my opinion failed to live up to WP:NPOV. "Kosher salt" is a quasi marketing term in the U.S, not anywhere else where it is large grain salt and the such. the original purpose of "Kosher salt" was for "kashering meat" in the process described, and it should have more of an emphasis in the lead section of the article too, not just that it is now a major commercial commodity by its name. ephix (talk) 19:34, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

A Google search for "Kashering Salt" yielded slightly more than 1000 results. I looked up "kashering" in several dictionaries and was redirected to "kosher". The article itself states that the salt is called kosher salt in the U.S., koshering salt in the United Kingdom, and course cooking salt elsewhere. It seems to me that the discussion should be between "kosher salt" and "koshering salt", not between a third term that isn't widely used for the salt at all. From what I recall of the gas vs. petrol argument, the solution when naming articles with different legitimate titles is to go with what the title of the article was when it was created. I'm not sure what that is, but would there be any objections to going back to the original title? Haschel47 (talk) 23:34, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

I've not heard of the term "kosher salt", but it seems to be a US term. If it's a brand name, I'd be concerned naming the generic article for it. In any case, it does have problems as the article states, because it misleads one into thinking ordinary salt is not kosher. I'd therefore prefer it to be at koshering or kashering. The two terms are fairly interchangable, but we have RS for the former. I'd therefore suggest it ends at Koshering salt with redirects from kosher salt and kashering salt. But I'm keen to hear from some American editors. --Dweller (talk) 10:50, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
It's not a specific brand name. As mentioned above, the salt was originally used for drawing the blood out of the meat. This led to the name "koshering salt". In the United States, this is almost always shortened to "kosher salt", regardless of which company sells the salt. Anyhoo, I have never heard it referred to as "kashering salt" before this page was moved.Haschel47 (talk) 09:49, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
If it's not a proprietory name, I have no strong objection for reverting to Kosher salt. I couldn't tell you whether Kosher salt or koshering salt is the more common usage, but I'd probably go with the American in terms of numbers of English speakers who'd use the stuff. --Dweller (talk) 11:44, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
Since there wasn't any more input, I went ahead and moved the page to "Kosher Salt".Haschel47 (talk) 22:43, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

I see other editors above have also used the term "koshering" and others have been confused about this salt apparently being kosher when others are not, which is of course a fallacy. --Dweller (talk) 10:52, 9 March 2009 (UTC) I see there's been more page move shenanigans. See below. --Dweller (talk) 13:09, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Kosher Cheeseburger[edit]

Where can I obtain this kosher cheeseburger? I think a citation is needed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.203.20.239 (talk) 18:20, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

  • I was a bit confused by this question but it seems to be in response to this version. It only refers to the Lower East Side, of which city I don't know. Tyciol (talk) 02:16, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
That section was (properly) removed from the article because it's total nonsense. Not even the most secular Jews do that. Ariel. (talk) 09:00, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Page move warring[edit]

No-one should be page move warring, and doing so will just end up with this page being protected. It seems we clearly understand:

  1. in the United States, this is known as "Kosher salt"
  2. however, we have cited examples of how there's a move away from this terminology there
  3. in GB this is known as "Koshering" or "Kashering" salt
  4. elsewhere, we either don't know or it's called something else entirely, like "coarse"
  5. the expression "kosher salt" is confusing, as it implies that there is a type of salt that is kosher and a type that is not, which is not the case.

In the absence of a definitive proof over which term of 1 and 3 has primacy, I'd suggest that argument 5 is persuasive (which is why argument 2 is happening).

While we debate this, please do not move the page again. It's edit warring and you could end up being blocked. --Dweller (talk) 13:13, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

This was not edit warring. I saw the page being moved after a post in the non-controversial moves section at WP:RM but from looking at this talk page, it is (although not huge) not non-controversial hence I moved it back. I have no opinion on how the article should be named. :) Garion96 (talk) 15:29, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
Ah. I'm glad about that. But let's use this as an opportunity to sort this out once and for all, because it has pinged back and forth a few times of late. --Dweller (talk) 15:41, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
Kosher salt may be confusing, but if it's the name generally used, then it should be the name of the article, in my humblest of opinions. Bus stop (talk) 18:03, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
I agree with Dweller. The correct term is "kashering (or koshering) salt," since that's what this salt is used for in kashrut — to soak the blood out of meat and render it kosher. It is also called "coarse salt" as opposed to table salt. But manufacturers in the U.S. are writing "kosher salt" on their products for easy identification with Jewish customers. To name our article "kosher salt" will signify to laymen that there is a salt that is kosher and a salt that is not. Let's rename the page "Kashering (or Koshering) Salt" and explain the alternate name in the lead. Yoninah (talk) 19:58, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
Having used this type of salt many times for kashering, and during Pesch instead of regular salt, I must agree that "kashering salt" is the correct term. Combined with the arguments of Dweller and Yoninah, I come to the conclusion that a rename would be preferable. After all, there will still be a redirect to link from the more familiar term "kosher salt". Debresser (talk) 21:13, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
I'm opposed to promoting terms. Usage is what should guide us. Google hits are as follows.
  • "kosher salt" — 239,000
  • "koshering salt" — 3,700
  • "kashering salt" — 586
Unless it could be determined that the quality of the hits for the second two terms are better, I think this article should be titled "Kosher salt." Bus stop (talk) 21:29, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
You're unpersuaded by the term being confusing to those who've not come across the term before because they know little or because they're not in the US? --Dweller (talk) 21:33, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
I think the confusion can be cleared up within the article. The question is what factors one takes into consideration in picking between 3 competing terms for the same article title. In the pursuit of clearing up the confusion should we opt for choosing an unpopular name for the item being referred to? That would call for a counterbalancing statement in the article alerting the reader to our reasons for choosing the less popular name. That is not entirely unworkable. But I think the least awkward method is to use the most popular title but to note the existence of a misleading characteristic built into the most popular appellation. Thus the article would explain that the salt is not really kosher, but rather that it is used in the koshering (or kashering) process. Bus stop (talk) 21:50, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
In view of these figures I have to agree with Bus stop, provided that the issue is addressed properly in the first paragraph of the lede (which I think it is at present). Debresser (talk) 06:31, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
Bus Stop's figures are, indeed, persuasive. Anyone else have an opinion? --Dweller (talk) 10:15, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
Yes, the number of Google hits are impressive. I agree with calling it "Kosher salt" and explaining the "kashering" part in the lead. Yoninah (talk) 20:53, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Interwiki[edit]

I was surprised to see there was no he: link - I assumed they'd have an article on this topic. I can't type hebrew, so thought I'd be clever and click through to the he: article on Salt... but there doesn't seem to be an article on salt in he: either! Anyone? --Dweller (talk) 10:15, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

I highly doubt there's a Hebrew article specifically on Koshering Salt. I did however add the interwiki link for salt in general. Breein1007 (talk) 02:14, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
Thanks --Dweller (talk) 09:39, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Possibly related to shrimp?[edit]

In the south San Francisco Bay area of California, one salt supplier floods shallow areas with sea water, then closes dikes, and lets the water evaporate during the dry summer. The lsat is left behind, then purified. But at an intermediate stage, brine shrimp live in the very salt water, and their remains will be in the salf before purification. Shrimp is not kosher. Could that be related? This is not an informed opinion, merely a point for discussion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.249.112.62 (talk) 01:08, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Varieties of salt[edit]

The "gourmet salt" fad has resulted in a huge number of variations on salt.[2] SaltWorks offers a kosher salt guide. They distinguish between salts which are certified kosher by the Orthodox Union, and "kosher-style" salt, "characterized by its distinct small, flake-style crystal". They offer other salt varieties with much larger grains. Most of their products other than their flavored and colored salts are certified kosher, including both sea salt and mined salt product lines. Their comment is "Interestingly enough, it is believed that this style of salt took on the name “kosher,” because the unique texture and shape are useful in the process of koshering meat. Of course, this name created the confusion!" --John Nagle (talk) 05:37, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Added refs from Salt Institute and SaltWorks, so we now have some reasonable sources. --John Nagle (talk) 18:04, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
Added ref to Orthodox Union re koshering procedure. We now have citations for all but the cooking/seasoning section. Anybody into cooking? --John Nagle (talk) 21:20, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Koshering vs. salt curing[edit]

Someone added "powerful extracting power of removing blood from meat" re koshering salt. Koshering doesn't go all the way to full dessication. It's just a surface treatment for meat that will be cooked. Removing all the blood and water yields salt-cured meat or jerky. --John Nagle (talk) 18:51, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

does the term originate in the use of blood to separate impurities in the salt itself?[edit]

During the Middle Ages, a small amount of animal blood was sometimes added to the salt brine to separate impurities. Would that have made the salt non-kosher? and could this be related to the origin of the term--i.e., that kosher salt had not been made with blood. Such use is noted here: [3] and in the recent book Salt: A World History

Ecambrose (talk) 17:22, 26 October 2012 (UTC) E. C. Ambrose