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[edit] American Rifleman
Can someone explain when and why American Rifleman, the magazine of the National Rifle Association is becomed an acceptable source of objective and trustable information ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.167.245.2 (talk) 21:14, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
- It isn't; see below. Jayjg (talk) 20:10, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
[edit] Disarmament of the Jews
I've moved the following paragraph/section to Talk: for discussion:
One of the significant purposes of Kristallnacht was the explicit disarmament of the German Jews. The SA were under orders to confiscate all Jewish-owned firearms. The order was issued "[a]ll Jews are to be disarmed. In the event of resistance they are to be shot immediately."<ref name="Halbrook, Stephen P. 52">{{cite news |author= Halbrook, Stephen P.|title=Registration: The Nazi Paradigm|url=http://stephenhalbrook.com/registration_article/registration.html|work=American Rifleman, Vol 149 No. 6|page=52 |date=June 2001 |accessdate=7 April 2009}}</ref>
The claim that this is "one of the significant purposes of Kristallnacht" is sourced to an article in American Rifleman, by Stephen P. Halbrook, hosted on Halbrook's website. It seems to me that this is a classic WP:REDFLAG and WP:UNDUE claim made by a partisan non-specialist. While the Nazis did (among many other things) disarm German Jews, I haven't seen World War II or Holocaust historians make the claim that this was a "purpose" of Kristallnacht, much less a "significant" one. Rather, in this case, the claim is made by a lawyer, writing in a gun-enthusiast magazine. The article itself goes on to laud the National Rifle Association for helping "defeat the Nazi and Fascist terror regimes [and] end the Holocaust", and explain (in effect) that is only uninhibited gun ownership that protects Americans from being ruled by "terrorist governments". In short, this is just another artifact of the interminable Second Amendment debates, and has little relevance to Kristallnacht. Jayjg (talk) 01:13, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
- I've moved a related sentence here, that the Nazis managed to achieve in Kristallnacht all the theoretical targets they set for themselves, including "wholesale disarmament of the Jews through the confiscation of Jewish-owned firearms". It has the same source, and I think is a similar distortion. On top of the other issues raised above, it's unclear that German Jews owned many firearms to begin with, and it's highly unlikely that the Nazis feared they would use them. Jayjg (talk) 02:06, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
- This all sounds about right to me. I had previously removed a couple of paragraphs that an editor had rather lazily inserted here from Gun politics in Germany without any change, and which rang loud alarm bells for me because of its very OR-ish "it would be difficult to avoid the conclusion"-type wording. I had not studied the refs carefully enough, though, so thank you - as you say it sounds like a bit of a single-issue-specialist essay, possibly not the most reliable source for German history, and probably not here to serve the purposes of the article as its first priority.
You might want to look at the other article for the same kind of issues. Update: In fact I've now deleted what seemed to be the same piece of OR-ish association in the hope of either getting a good ref or leaving it out. Cheers DBaK (talk) 07:56, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
- It turns out they were the contributions of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Dansnare , an editor with very few edits and a singular focus on gun ownership. Jayjg (talk) 19:36, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
[edit] ss troopers
the troopers during this attack were not SA the were SS. Hitler got rid of the SA in 1934 because they seemed to the people of germany as "thugs" and hitler did not want the people of germany to feel unsafe which is why he got rid of the SA. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.166.37.5 (talk) 12:42, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
[edit] book in English that should be added to references
hey everyone I ask that someone who has editing privileges here add this book to the References section under Books in English: Steinweis, Alan E. (2009. Kristallnacht 1938. Cambridge: Belknap Press of Harvard University Press. ISBN 978-0-674-03623-9. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Daphnis9 (talk • contribs) 19:05, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
