Talk:Kuči

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Prevalis[edit]

Some info you might be interested in: in 1694 the Kucs were together with the Albanian Hots in an alliance against the Turks. Throughout the 18th century the Kucs fight together with the Serb Vasojevics and the Albanians Hots and Kliments in resistance against the Ottoman Empire.

You could include the folk telling of the Kuci's common origin (probably falsified to attain "brotherhood" of clans, based of half-truth), told by Marko Miljanov Popovic in his book: that Kuci, Kastrati and Saljani descend from three brothers: Grča, Krsto and Šako.

You could add that the Albanian clans Kastratis, Berishas (though today these are largely Roma, lol) and Kliments most probably descend from the Kuci (according to their home tellings).

The Kuci're not Montenegrin, they're Highlander. --PaxEquilibrium 19:08, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

It's not proper to simply call the Kuci an Albanian clan (or Marko Miljanov an ethnic Albanian), it's one clan but of dual Slavic (Serbian) and Albanian origins. The Old Kuci are largely of Serb and the New Kuci of Albanian. According to "Predanja o zajedničnom poreklu nekih crnogorskih i nekih arbanaških plemena" of Mirko Barjaktarevic: Na koncu, potreba zajedničke odbrane i sigurnijeg ekonomskog življenja tera i nesrodnike da se udružuju u istu zajednicu ili pleme. Tako su Srbi i, delom, Arbanasi obrazovali pleme Kuče. I to Srbi pravoslavne a Arbanasi katoličke i islamske religije. Otuda Kuči kao pleme čine zajednicu od Srba i Arbanasa to jest od življa pravoslavne, katoličke i islamske religije. Ni etnička ni religiozna razlika nisu bile tolika prepreka da se stvori jedinstvena plemenska zajednica. The same is claimed in Jovan Erdeljanovic's "Kuci Tribe". --PaxEquilibrium 19:13, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Nomenclature changes[edit]

In accordance to the Serb clans article, I have replaced most of the 'clan' terms with 'tribe', as 'clan' denotes 'bratstvo' and Kuči is a 'pleme' (tribe). I haven't changed the term 'clan' referring to 'Starokuči' (Old Kuči), because it, IMHO, denotes a 'group of clans' (skup bratstava), rather then more territorial 'tribe'.

I have also changed the term 'family' with 'clan' (bratstvo). --VeselinM (talk) 22:24, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Vuk Lalev Drekalović and his descendants[edit]

I am quite aware that Vuk had crossed over to Islam, however, Pax mentioned that Vuk's descendants are the forefathers of the Turkovići. However, I recently found that the same Vuk's descendants are the forefathers of the Omerbožovići, another clan located near the city of Podgorica. I am not sure whether they were both or not and will look into it. Pax, I am asking you to provide a source for your claim while I look more deeper in this situation.

Never mind. Quick fact: Never trust forums... --Prevalis (talk) 02:51, 6 May 2008 (UTC)


Please...[edit]

Please, I'm begging all members... Please, don't put that Kuči are Serb tribe. Kuči are not Serb tribe - Starokuči are Serbs, Drekalovići are mixed Albanians/Montenegrins/Serbs and there are Albanians in Kuči, in villages like Zatrijebač, Koći, Fundina... Please, be tolerant and respect other side of Kuči. I'm orthodox from Kuči but our tribe is not Serbian or any other tribe. And, if I know history - tribes exitsts only in Scotland, Albania and Montenegro, so that phrase 'Serbian tribe' is false and fake. Please, be tolerant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.42.878.39 (talk) 01:33, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Even starokuči are not serbs. Starokuči is only a made name old kuči. Everything connected with Kuči (Kuçi) is Albanian, deriving from Albanians and only Albanians. In Albania and Kosova even wider you can find surnames "Kuçi". It is well known that Montenegrians derive from Albanians you can see it through their culture and these organisation of their society "TRIBES". .... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zeau (talkcontribs) 08:40, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

The founder of the Kuci tribe is said to be the albanian Drekali Kastrioti, Gjergj Kastrioti´s grandson.[edit]

This is what is stated in the article below. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kastrioti —Preceding unsigned comment added by Durim Durimi (talkcontribs) 18:54, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Mate, this was stated in the article. --Prevalis (talk) 15:35, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

I note the criticism is that this article reads like a personal reflection with little or no references. Perhaps there are no references and the fact that most of the history is carried from on generation to the other through the repetition of song and the gusla. Although there may be have been church or other documentation most history is passed on through the many songs. A fierce and proud family this is how their history is and was recorded. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.113.146.27 (talk) 16:48, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Kuci - one genome mapping[edit]

I am Mitrovic - Old Kuci. According to stories I heard we used to be Nikezic who are also Old Kuci, changing the last name after Mitar Nikezic but I am not sure if this is true. Anyway, few days ago I had my genome mapped and my genetic paternal haplogroup was found to be E1b1b1a2 which is haplogroup common to Albanians and Greeks (Peloponesian). Mainly common to Albanians though. The origin of E1b1b1a2 is really Southern Balkans so this is the authentic Balkan haplogroup, basically not the Slavic haplogroup. Actually the percentage of E1b1b1a2 among Slavs is really small - E1b1b1a2 among Slavs outside of Balkans is found to be negligible.

E1b1b1a2 spreaded from the area of Albania/Montenegro to the north but its highest concentration still remains in Albania. In other words, it appears that it is some sort of Hellenic/Thracian/Illyric origin. I recon this may stand true for other Mitrovics and Nikezics - however we can't really conclude this until their genome is mapped. It would be interesting though to do this mapping in order to understand relationships and mixing.

Here is the map of how E1b1b1a2 spread to the north http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HgE1b1b1a2.png So, it really is of authentic Balkan origin but its parental group E1b1b1 is from North Africa originally, moving north to Hellenic world in Bronze Age. E1b1b1a2 spreaded north with migrations so, for example, a good percentage of people who live in Serbia do belong to E1b1b1a2 haplogroup however their ancestors originally being from Albanian/Montenegro area. Among people in Serbia the most prevalent haplogroup is found to be I2a-P37.2.

I conclude that my genome mapping in a sense does confirm Kuci-Albanian connection and origin. Of course, the later Slavic influence and mix was very high and that enabled further enrichment of the lot.

I hope someone finds this interesting and useful as the day when everyone will map their genome is coming and then the relationships will be easily determined by computer. In other words it will be easy to map all Kuci to their relatives anywhere in Balkans in order to understand the origin and migrations and even be able to assemble the genetic code of the original Kuci patriarch (Drekale or whoever he was).

Also, is anyone aware of anyone from Kuci that has done the genetic mapping? It would be useful to look at the results and compare.

Old Kuči, Saint Demetrius, R1a1a (R-M198) haplogroup[edit]

My family is from Old Kuči clan with Saint Demetrius slava and our Y-DNA haplogroup is R1a1a (R-M198), which is a Slavic haplogroup (we did an extensive analysis and have a document done by a PhD researcher in the field of medical genetics and cell biology on precise origins of our haplogroup but it is too long document to be pasted here). A family member hired a historian some time ago who came to a conclusion that our family is directly descended from Mrnjavčevićs but I never personally saw the research document, although the research was done long before I noticed the entry regarding Kuči here on Wikipedia. It would be interesting if Y-DNA test could be performed one day on any known remains (if there are any) of Mrnjavčevićs so we could see what haplogroup they had which should be R1a1a if the historian did his research properly. Anyway, example of our family clearly shows that Kuči clan is not entirely Albanian. It could be that Slavic part (R1a1a) is a small minority and that they populated an area that was predominately Albanian before their arrival, which is in line with the narrative that Mrnjavčevićs came to this area fleeing from Ottoman invaders.

Kuci is not a slavic name[edit]

please I beg you, it just looks horrible to read an article about and "eastern tribe which was located near the albanian border " what else do you want as prove? I'm by myself a member of the Kuqi clan ...... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.173.154.251 (talk) 17:20, 16 April 2014 (UTC)