Talk:Kuchi (dog)

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Research[edit]

> This site is not available since more than half a year.

> This German couple who is breeding Sage Kochees works together wir Rasaq Qadirie, they have imported old Afghan Type by the help of Qadirie.

Material for the page appears to be from one website, http://www.koocheedog.com/history.php, The Origins of The Sage Koochee by A. Rasaq Qadirie. Not copied exactly, but probably the same author (English needs some touching up.)


The dogs are a type of Livestock guardian dog similar to ones used by other pastoralists throughout the area.

Koochee is found with many spellings but the one used by government and news media (and Wikipedia) in English is Kuchi. The Kuchi and the have a very long conflict, stemming from the Pashtun tribes (of which the Kuchi are some sort of sub-unit) getting land taken by Abdur Rahman Khan when he was opressing the Hazaras in the 1890s. Also the Kuchi supported and were part of the Taliban. > In the article one possible name is given: De Kochyano Spai. But this is a different breed. Sorry, I don´t know where to correct it.

The dog described by Mr. Qadirie is more interesting than a modern breed, it is an old, possibly ancient, type or land-race of dog, which has been fit through time perfectly to its environment and the needs of the humans who keep it. I hope the dog will be genetically tested, and that descriptions of its work and interactions with the people to which it is adapted will be preserved.

The type has been taken out of its environment in Afghanistan and there are now at least two kennels documenting, registering, and selling the dog under two different breed names, one in Germany and one in the US. Given the proliferation of low-requirement breed registries, there undoubtedly will be more name variations and new breeds based on this type.--Hafwyn (talk) 17:30, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Both the kennel in Germany and the US based kennel are using dogs of similar bloodlines; originating with a stud dog Akbar; who was chosen by Qadirie for breeder Ron Guldenschuh. While Qadirie makes no recommendations about what dogs to breed; he personally chose Akbar (who resembled a favourite of Qadirie) for Guldenschuh. The United States kennel consulted Qadirie to import a Central Asian native-type dog as a stud-dog and after meeting the breeder; he referred them to Guldenschuh. The U.S. kennel uses an Akbar son as a stud dog. Both the U.S. and Germany kennels produce very diverse looking dogs; an assortment of colours, coat textures and body phenotype. Both kennels have produced litters that resemble the koochee dogs depicted on the galleries page of the koochee dog website. See: http://www.koocheedog.com/galleries.php Qadirie only supports efforts to help preserve the rare and disappearing bloodlines of old. Currently, most of his work concentrates on the program in Germany. The most up-to-date information can be found on the German site (sage-koochee.de), and Mr. Qadirie's official site (koocheedog.com).User:Avitch (talk) 18:37 May 31, 2009(UTC)

Contested prod[edit]

contest prod - 3.8k Ghits, mostly in the dog community, blogs et, RS could probably be found. Found both German [www.sage-koochee.de/] and Norwegian [1] Internet pages on this breed. German spelling seems to be "Sage Koochi" - Afghan spelling seems to be Kuchi. Also mentioned on Wikipedia:WikiProject Dogs/Dog breeds task force/To do. Conclusion: definitely no hoax, genuine article, but with problems, sure Power.corrupts (talk) 12:13, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Disputed paragraph[edit]

The second paragraph of the "Breed history" section seems clearly written from a non-neutral point of view. It should be substantiated with specific references and/or rephrased. See here Mkjo (talk) 12:43, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Article name[edit]

"Kuchi" which means nomad and "Kuchi dog" will be Nomad dog. Local name for these dogs is in Pashto "De Kochiano Spai" because most nomads are ethnic Pashtuns. Since the word Kuchi is widely used in foreign sources when referring to Afghan nomads, the closest English translation for the name of the article would be "Kuchi dog". (Ketabtoon (talk) 03:34, 14 February 2010 (UTC))

Dari or Persian[edit]

Dari or Farsi-e Dari might be used by the Persian-speakers of Afghanistan but Persian is the correct term for this language. Sag-e Tazi is used in both Iran and Afghanistan. English recognizes this language as Persian not Farsi, Tajiki, or Dari. Do you go around and use Francais, Deutsch, Al-Arabiya in the English language?--Inuit18 (talk) 06:06, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Move[edit]

Can we move this page to Sage koochee? I've found numerous sources that state the english name of the dog is as such: [2] [3] [4] --TKK bark ! 23:54, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

removing POV tag with no active discussion per Template:POV[edit]

I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:

This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:
  1. There is consensus on the talkpage or the NPOV Noticeboard that the issue has been resolved
  2. It is not clear what the neutrality issue is, and no satisfactory explanation has been given
  3. In the absence of any discussion, or if the discussion has become dormant.

Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 (talk) 03:19, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Wrong Photo[edit]

This photo represents a Central Asian Ovcharka. This is what it says in the Wikimedia Commons photo description: "TEDZHEN iz Jevdokimovoi Storozhki. Owned by breeding-ground BARONAS from Lithuania CO & CAO CLUB "BALTIJA". 18 months old in this picture." CO = Caucasian Ovcharka and CAO = Central Asian Ovcarka, so "Co & CAO Club" refers to the breed club of these two Russian FCI qualified breeds, not the native Afghan mountain dog called Sage Koochee. Besides, if the dog is owned by Lithuanians as it says in the Commons caption, how can it be "a fighting and guard dog IN AFGHANISTAN" as it is claimed in this articles image caption? It can always be discussed wether the Sage Koochee is just a local variant of the Central Asian Ovcharka, but at least a Lithuanian, FCI registered (under the Lithuanian Kennel Club...) CAO individual CANNOT be called "Sage Koochee" or "Afghan fighting dog" nor be said to be "in Afghanistan"... --Canarian (talk) 09:17, 11 April 2014 (UTC)