Talk:La Franja

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Title[edit]

In my opinion, will be a more correct and neutral POV the title La Franja, without any implication of catalan or aragonese vision. Neither western or eastern. --Joan sense nick 08:07, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

I agree. Then proper redirections should be made for each denomination. Toniher 13:04, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
I move to La Franja... Toniher 09:58, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Status of Catalan[edit]

Catalan has official status in Spain, so I wouldn´t say Catalan does not currently have an official status in La Franja. I would propose the following rewording, but it doesn´t solve this problem:

"As this territory is not part of the autonomous community of Catalonia, Catalan does not currently have an official status in it."
As you know, Catalan is not only spoken in Catalonia. I have tried a different re-writing. Toniher 18:03, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
"Catalan has official status in Spain, so I wouldn´t say Catalan does not currently have an official status in La Franja." <<-- This is simply an act of POISONING wikipedia. It is the most biased, false, unaccurate and even dangerous comment I've seen ever! Catalan and Valencian are official in Catalonia, Balears and Valencia. NOWHERE ELSE IN SPAIN!!! Maurice27 14:42, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

The Catalan-speaking territories Table[edit]

This table, which includes the following subdivisions: (History of Catalonia · Counts of Barcelona · Treaty of the Pyrenees · Catalan constitutions · Generalitat de Catalunya · Generalitat Valenciana · Govern de les Illes Balears · Consell General de les Valls (Andorra) · Politics of Catalonia · Catalan nationalism) among others, has nothing to do in an aragonese territory wikipage. For this reason, I am erasing it.

For the catalan speaking explanation inside the table, I believe it is already correctly explained in the normal text Maurice27 20:15, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Reverting massive vandalism from Maurice27. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Northern_Catalonia#New_Edition Toniher 23:21, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism by User:Toniher[edit]

User:Toniher is constantly reverting my contrubutions and accusing me of Vandalism... Maybe this morning the Franja de Aragon has suddenly become part of Catalonia and I'm unaware of that fact. Meanwhile IT IS STILL SOIL OF THE AUTONOMOUS COMMUNITY OF ARAGON and this article should say it so. Nobody is going to include a template with the "comarques of Catalonia" or a table with "History of Catalonia, Catalan constitutions, Generalitat de Catalunya" facts in a non-catalonian wikipage.

I will not... I repeat, I will not tolerate this pro-catalan acting towards my own mother's country!!!

This said, I would like to kindly ask all the contributors which feel the "urgent need" to fool and fill the Wikipedia world with Pan-Catalanism, Catalan Countries wannabe, Catalan nationalism and just plain false pseudo-Catalan History to restraint themselves from doing it. Not all the surrounding lands to Catalonia feel the need to become part of it, and the english Wikipedia will not become a highway to "export" their history "a la carte". Giving for right the fact that we should not generalize, I often wonders if these people suffer from the well-known "Catalan Small Penis Syndrome" (Are we allowed to say "penis"?)

WIKIPEDIA IS NOT A PRO-CATALAN POLITICAL PAMPHLET Maurice27 00:17, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Isn't La Franja a Catalan-speaking territory?[edit]

La Franja is the territory with a highest ratio of native Catalan-speaking people in the world, that is a 90% of population. How can somebody say that there's any relation between La Franja and Counts of Barceloona or History of Catalaonia? This i simply Catalan-negationism. Pere M Mollet(Talk)Flag of Catalonia.svgFlag of Europe.svg 11:29, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Because it does not!. It is related with the Crown of Aragon, not with Catalonia. Maurice27 14:38, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
May I hazard to suggest that you are both right? The original status came from the Marca Hispanica, whereas the current boundaries date from the provincial delimitations of the nineteenth century: neither represents linguistic fronteers, even at the time when they were made. Still, I should point out that the Counts of Barcelona have also been Kings of Aragon since 1137, whatever the real extent of the territory which they actually controlled. Physchim62 (talk) 15:06, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
Simply read one of the external links. Along history, part of the territories presently known as La Franja moved from/to Aragon or Principality of Catalonia jurisdiction. So, both Catalonia and Aragon usually claim it based on historical terms. Toniher 15:24, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Name???[edit]

why does it say "or La Francha de Ponent (Catalan for Western Strip)" in the first line? its only called Franja in Catalan not Francha ('ch' doesn't exist in Catalan!) Jonny1047 11:23, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Requested move[edit]

La FranjaFranja de Ponent Most common name used in English for the region and is not coincidentally the title of the Catalan article. —  AjaxSmack  07:42, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Survey[edit]

Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" or other opinion in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~

Support[edit]

  1. Support as nominator. —  AjaxSmack  07:42, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose[edit]

  1. --Ecelan 17:29, 1 August 2007 (UTC) to use La Franja de Ponent would be taking part in a deeply political issue. La Franja de Ponent ("Strip of the Sunset") is used exclusively in Catalonia, and would empower that point of view above any other. It would be to ignore the point of view of the Aragonese (where La Franja actually is), where it is just called La Francha de Lebán in Aragonese ("Strip of the Dawn") or Franja catalanoparlante ("Strip of speaking catalan") in Spanish. La Franja is a WP:NPV solution for the title.

It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it be moved. --Stemonitis 11:44, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

SPANISH VERSION[edit]

The article 'Franja de Aragón' in spanish wikipedia is very complete and different from this one

In view of this I have started translating the Spanish article. While translating it is hard to get out of the mindset of the language so please feel free to improve the English and make it flow a bit better. Hopefully the translation of the Spanish version, once finished can be the basis for a more comprehensive article on the Franja! Jonny1047 00:48, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Nice work, Jonny! I've gone through it from the perspective of a native (British) English speaker and made a few changes. Have a look and let me know what you think. Among others I've changed the word 'archpriestship' to 'deanery' - a term that's used in both Catholic and Anglican contexts in Britain. Alec.brady 12:21, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

CATALAN COUNTRIES MAP & FLAG[edit]

I don't think there is any need for there to be a map of the unrecognised Catalan Countries at the very start of this article. Nor is it appropriate to have a flag of these same 'countries' in the text. I will remove the map and the flag immediately. If anybody wishes to add the map to a section which deals with the Catalan claims to the territory, this would be more appropriate. As for the flag, it is not pertinent in the slightest to this article. Blah554 (talk) 18:35, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

relevance of article[edit]

I struggle to find useful information here. This is purely propaganda. Confusing article that only speaks about catalanism of La Franja. You can find by my surname that I am originally from that area of Aragon. This area speaks catalan but is Aragonesse and its people feels Aragonesse. As an example check the elections results. How many councils have any Catalan party member? Nobody stops catalan parties running in council elections. Look at Navarra for example, many local councils are from Basque parties. Anyway, the main point here, this article does not say anything about La franja except that they speak catalan, crap article. rguiu 12:07, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

I moved the above down here to facilitate discussion. I do agree that the article is not actually about the franja. I simply translated the Spanish one as there was lots of info, but I suppose it would be better suited titled along the lines of 'definitions of La Franja' with a new article taking the title of 'La Franja' which details the demographics, economy, geography, transport infrastructure, culture etc. As rguiu points out, there is no information to actually tell anyone about the area!
Jonny1047 (talk) 12:19, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
Is this term used outside anywhere except dialectological discussions? If it is only relevant to the discussion of the extent of the Catalan countries, then it's OK that it will only be about language and the article about the respective comarcas will tell what there is to tell about the area. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 14:10, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
There are too many unrelated things in this article, but, indeed, looks like it is not talking of La Franja, but of Catalan language spoken in Aragon. The article, as it is, does not look good, but rather miscellanous and pointless.
Probably the reason for that is that La Franja does not exist as a distinctive territory, but it is a term used mostly in Catalonia to designate the (very diverse between themselves and otherwise unrelated) territories in Aragon which speak also Catalan besides Spanish. The problem is that these territories do not seem to primarily identify themselves or take particular pride based on the languages they speak, and that is why the article looks forced. Mountolive group using a loop of another pop group 04:15, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
But yet again: if this term is used in linguistic literature, which this articles cites pretty well, then it is fine. People that live in the Mesoamerican Linguistic Area don't call that place "Mesoamerican Linguistic Area". La Franja is mentioned in every discussion about the Catalan language, when the area where it is spoken is discussed, so even if people that live there don't call it by that name, it is still relevant. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 05:32, 4 August 2008 (UTC)