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Icelandic Sagas and Public Records in the Scottish National Archives
The Wiki community appreciates the presentation of both the Scots and Norse versions of the Battle of Largs and the resulting Treaty of Perth.
But wouldn't it be better to make this article more compatible with the Icelandic Sagas and the History of the Earls of Orkney as already linked in the Wiki article of the Orkney Sagas?
Orkneyinga Saga: The History of the Earls of Orkney. Trans. Pálsson, Hermann and Edwards, Paul (1978). London: Hogarth Press. ISBN 0-7012-0431-1. Republished 1981, Harmondsworth: Penguin. ISBN 0-14-044383-5.
The Orkneyingers Saga (Icelandic Sagas, and other historical documents relating to the settlements and descents of the Northmen on the British Isles, Volume III). Translated by George Dasent (1894). London: Her Majesty's Stationery Office. Reprinted 1964 by Kraus Reprint. Text available at Sacred Texts and Northvegr.
Fundinn Noregr ('Discovery of Norway'), opening portion of The Orkneyingers Saga. Trans. Chappell, Gavin (2004) Northvegr: The Discovery of Norway.
Original text: Saganet: Orkneyinga saga (internet search on these keywords)
I'm absolutely certain from records in the Scottish National Archives and at New Register House that the private estate known as Crosbie (Ayrshire) is linked inextricably with the history of the Battle of Largs as it was given to the Sheriff of Ayrshire by Alexander III for the successful military strategy conducted by the Sheriff that resulted in the rather large ship-borne force sent to teach the young Alexander a lesson about in whose jurisdiction the Isles and Kintyre belonged. There may even be records left by the Bishop of St. Andrews as he was involved in the failed negotiations that occurred just prior to the Battle.
History records a small force, but that was in leaving the Battle after an autumn storm crushed the fleet against the shore. Knowing the climate in the area I am fairly certain that an autumn storm could easily wreak havoc on a fleet of ships anchored off the coast to leave only a small force in the storm's path.
And furthermore, since the Lord of the Isles came under the protection of Alexander beginning in late 1263, I would say that the Treaty of Perth in 1266 was a mere formality to what had been decided at the Battle of Largs in 1263.
I wanted to change the title of this page to Largs, North Ayrshire but I made a typing error. When I tried to edit the title it wouldn't move it, then when I tried to move it back it didn't go either. Please help! EwanMclean2005 20:01, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
- Are there any other places named Largs? More prominent ones than this, since its necessary to change the name of this article? Manxruler 02:22, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
- I wondered also why it was considered necessary (by one person presumably?). Why not just "Largs, Ayrshire" as that would be sufficient to distinguish from any other Largs in other parts of the world. "North Ayrshire" is just a transitory administrative area and will probably change at some point. For anyone outside the immediate area it is just "Ayrshire" anyway. --jmb 08:18, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Was there really any need to change the name of the article at all? Fraslet 10:47, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
- The person who changed it the name seems to have been through every place in the area and done the same. --jmb 11:15, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
- As far as I can see this Largs is the only Largs on Wikipedia, and probably the most prominent Largs anywhere, so why not just call it Largs? Adding counties and whatnot is usually reserved to distinguish between several localities of the same name, and then most often added only to the less prominent of the places with the same name. And isn't name changes for established articles supposed to be discussed at talk pages first? Manxruler 12:23, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
I don't think any of these place name moves are appropriate or necessary here. Page moves can create a lot of work cleaning up the resulting redirects, so they should only be done if there is a compelling reason.
In the case of these North Ayrshire articles, moves would only be necessary if there are other places with the same name on Wikipedia, and then only if they are of roughly equal or greater notability. If they are of lesser notability, all that is necessary is to create a "xxxxxxxxxx (disambiguation)" page, and use a template to put an appropriate message at the top of the ""xxxxxxxxxx" article. See WP:MOVE, WP:RM, MOS:DAB.
Unfortunately we will need help from an administrator to clear up the mess on this article.
--NSH001 12:37, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
- You often find that the people doing these changed never read the comments. Someone renamed "Achnacarry" as "New Achnacarry". I could not find any reference anywhere to it being called that and posted several messages asking him to explain the change but I got no response.
- In other parts of the country there have been disputes with people adding the names of modern administrative areas (like Great Manchester) because most people prefer the old county names. I wonder sometimes whether they are activing on behalf of the PR departments of these new areas! --jmb 12:54, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
North Ayrshire page moves mostly reversed
I have now, I think, reversed all the page moves, with the exception of the Largs and Saltcoats articles. Let me know if I've missed any.
The Largs and Saltcoats articles will need admin help to resolve unless we decide to allow the new names to stand.
--NSH001 13:33, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
- You might need to put a request here, Wikipedia:Requested moves for the Wiki Gods to change it. --jmb 14:18, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
- By all means, do put in a request. Its just ridiculous to include the county name in the title. Manxruler 21:51, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
"It is also the birthplace of Lord Kelvin, the inventor of the Kelvin Temperature Scale, with absolute zero. His beautiful stately family home has since been turned into flats."
- According to the DNB, he was born on 26 June 1824 at College Square, Belfast. I don't think he can be described as "inventing" the Kelvin Scale, he proposed an absolute temperature scale which was then named after him. --jmb 19:44, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
- I removed that statement. Its wrong according to the Lord Kelvin article and Kelvin's already covered earlier in this article. Manxruler 07:11, 19 September 2007 (UTC)