Talk:Las Vegas

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What's wrong with nicknames?[edit]

I don't see any problem with listing City of Lost Wages as a nickname. Whether it's official or not is completely irrelevant, what matters is that it's used. Ego White Tray (talk) 04:39, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Not commenting on the recent changes. But when does a nickname become notable? One mention? Five sources? Or 24,000 Google hits? Another question could be, is it encyclopedic to list every nickname in the infobox? If this is an issue, it there a way to decide what the limit is and which ones should remain? Vegaswikian (talk) 05:03, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
It's hard to judge, yes. But limiting to "official" nicknames effectively means putting promotional material in the page, since official nicknames are always always used to promote tourism - not just in Vegas, but everywhere. Ego White Tray (talk) 12:33, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
I also have trouble with use of the adjective "official." I'm not even sure there's a precise definition of such a creature. I suppose it would require that the appropriate governing body pass a resolution stating that the nickname in question is official. Now, I refuse to cede to the government the right to decide what nicknames are to be used -- any more than when some misguided officials once tried to dictate the value of pi. More importantly, that just isn't the way nicknames work in practice. Bottom line: whether or not "City of Lost Wages" is a notable nickname has nothing to do with its officialness (officialicity? officiality?). We're back to Vegaswikian's questions, to be answered as best we can.--Larry (talk) 23:32, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Water conservation in Vegas[edit]

Why is there no mention of this besides a small mention in the Geography section? There's no expansion on it. Can someone add it? I recall something about the volume of the lake they get most of their water from declining over the years. I think it's an issue worthy of it's own section at least. I thought water was becoming a huge issue in Las Vegas, maybe I'm wrong and it's not that notable. RocketLauncher2 (talk) 00:17, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Probably belongs in Las Vegas Valley Water District since these efforts are not driven by the city but by the valley water provider. Vegaswikian (talk) 00:39, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Climate Chart[edit]

I just undid a change to the June record high temperature, based on the June 2013 record. The reason: the current chart states it is for the years 1981 through 2010, and the source it uses is so based. We should probably update the record highs and lows, but we need a reliable source for this -- and I would not want to use a different source for each value, so it would be a bad idea to use newspaper articles and such.--Larry (talk) 03:59, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, although it is not yet midnight PDT, that is absurd. The period of normals (1981 to 2010) has nothing to do with the period of record, which is 1937 to present. NWS updates this page regularly. GotR Talk 04:17, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
If you can find a source with all the data, then go for it! However, the web page you specify doesn't seem to fit the bill. In order to display a chart of record highs by month, you have to select "monthly extremes" and "1981-2010". I suppose you could choose "record extremes" and assemble the info month by month, if you want. In either case, the cite doesn't yet have the new data.--Larry (talk) 04:29, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
Because, as I said, as of this post, it is still 30 Jun Pacific Daylight Time. GotR Talk 04:54, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
Well, it's past midnight PDT, and still no data, so your supposition is incorrect. However, that's neither here nor there, since I assume it will be available shortly. The key point: I took a look at the source you specified. The NWS page only provides data from 1948 onward. As you so clearly stated, this is insufficient. I'm pretty sure the NWS only has digital data back to 1948; before that, you'll have to look all 132 of the original, handwritten, MONTHLY reports for the prior eleven years! Not so long ago, I found this out the hard way when I was playing around with their downloadable data files.
The current Wiki page is based on a dead link, possibly as far back as 2009. You can't just add this newest record to it, as there might have been other monthly records in the last four years; you'll have to merge the table with new data for record highs and lows from 2009 onward. It's also pretty iffy, trying to merge new values into a table that doesn't even have a valid reference.
A better way: start with a source that has records from 1937. Perhaps some other NWS page has it. If not, try the WRCC. It's a pain to find the right web page, but I've copied their data a few years ago, and it goes back that far. However, it was a year or so out of date. If that's still true, you're stuck with merging two sources -- or waiting until the WRCC has more up to date data. After all, there's no hurry.--Larry (talk) 09:42, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
Where are you finding your data? Which NWS source has a period of record only back to 1948? NOAA Online Weather Data's Las Vegas ThreadEx station dates back to 1937. Select Product extremes → Las Vegas Area → Max Temperature → June, and there we have it, the June all-time record high just fell yesterday. GotR Talk 13:59, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
I had used the McCarran Airport numbers, since that's what the weather box title says the info is based on -- it's the official weather station. However, I think you're right that the "Las Vegas area" choice uses the proper data. I checked a couple of months of handwritten records for the airport (e.g., for July 1942), and it appears that's what was used; perhaps this is what the ThreadEx "Project Background" screen meant by "adding daily data from the old NWS Climate Record Books." Of course, since this method doesn't provide a single table of record values, you generated all 24 screens for the record monthly highs and lows, and then combined them into the weather box table -- correct? If so, the box's title, as well as the citation, can be corrected to reflect this.--Larry (talk) 21:25, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
Yes, the official Vegas NWS site is at McCarren and before that it was at what is now Nellis AFB. Vegaswikian (talk) 21:32, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 3 October 2013[edit]

The source for the 9th reference (history of Las Vegas) is not done properly. The author is wrong. The source is also not very authoritative. I am sure a better source could be found.

Thanks Caramsay (talk) 15:48, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Partly done: I have fixed the author mistake, thank you for pointing that out. If you have a better reference then the one currently in use, please provide it! Dana boomer (talk) 16:52, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Skyline[edit]

The picture of the skyline is terrible. I would propose something like this... (( http://dansmarathon.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/las-vegas-aerial.jpg?w=630&h=222 )) .. It much better describes the city.. It shows everything from downtown to the lower valley (Strip). Current one is is just so plaine and doesnt even really show the actaul downtown Vegas skyline. XSTLxCody (talk) 07:57, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

The current image does show the city skyline. The one you are suggesting shows mostly the valley. The easy and, in my opinion, the correct solution is to move the Las Vegas Valley article to Las Vegas or Las Vegas, Nevada. Then the article would reflect what most people actually know as Vegas. But until that happens, the city is the city and not 90% of the hotels and gambling or the skyline that everyone knows and loves. Vegaswikian (talk) 19:37, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Airport[edit]

No, the boundaries drawn by corrupt casino owners are not a suicide pact, and can not by themselves determine the content of this article. With McCarran being the primary airport serving Las Vegas (regardless of its location), there is no reason not to mention it. Ego White Tray (talk) 04:03, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

The whole group of articles about Las Vegas is a bit of a problem, but at the moment, Las Vegas is an article about an entity important to the people living there, but less so to the hordes of tourists that descend on the area (and the airport). I feel pretty confident that the Strip drives the majority of the airport traffic, and not the city (which has a much smaller number of hotel rooms, and attractions, than the Strip). The airport is also import to the entire metropolitan area (Las Vegas Valley), as well as these three: Clark County, Nevada; Paradise, Nevada; Winchester, Nevada. There may be others. I'd hesitate to put the airport link in all six of them, and perhaps others. Larry (talk) 04:59, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
I see nothing wrong with the link being in all six. And it's one thing if there was an airport actually in city limits, but there's not. Not to mention, Seattle (by example) has an airport in city limits (Boeing Field), but the city's infobox also mentions Sea-Tac Airport, since that's how people travel to the city. Also, for tourist, the Strip vs City thing is a distinction without a difference - close to none of them know that they're not in city limits, and I bet most of them do pop into the "city" during their trips - such as those staying at the Stratosphere, being both on strip AND in city. Ego White Tray (talk) 05:47, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
If you look at the numbers, about 5% or the gaming revenue and hotel rooms are in the city. The rest are elsewhere. If anyone wants to know how many visitors go to the city, I suspect that this is still reported by the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority. I used some old data in past move discussions in case you can't find updated information. Vegaswikian (talk) 06:29, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
What is the purpose of using this spare parameter to list the airport that provides service to the area? If this type of thing is so important, shouldn't it be included in the infobox code? The other issue, both here and in Seattle, is what is the city involvement? Things in the infobox are about the community that are actually physically part of the community, like the motto, population, land area and so on. The fact that if you start adding the airport to the articles you cited above justifies also adding it to NLV, Henderson, Summerlin, Enterprise, Spring Valley, Sunrise Manor and so on. That just shows how senseless adding it is. Vegaswikian (talk) 06:29, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
Well, the big difference is that none of those are the primary city for their region. Seattle and Las Vegas are. Because Las Vegas is such a large city, reader are expecting to see the name of the large airport that serves it. Also, in addition to Seattle, I looked at Los Angeles and New York City and these cities both list major airport, with New York and Seattle listing one that isn't in city limits. . On the other hand, Atlanta, London and Paris don't. This may be one to take to Wikipedia:Wikiproject Cities, to discuss whether we should be putting airports for major cities in the infobox. That said, I don't consider "not in city limits" a valid reason to exclude it. Ego White Tray (talk) 15:19, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
Okay, I did just take it to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cities#Airports in infoboxes. Ego White Tray (talk) 15:25, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Structure[edit]

Hi. I'm going through all the US Cities (as per List of United States cities by population) in an effort to provide some uniformity in structure. Anyone have an issue with me restructuring this article as per Wikipedia:WikiProject Cities/US Guideline. I won't be changing any content, merely the order. Occasionally, I will also move a picture just to clean up spacing issues. I've already gone through the top 20 or so on the above list, if you'd like to see how they turned out. Thoughts? Onel5969 (talk) 16:00, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Reordering the sections should not be a problem. Vegaswikian (talk) 19:58, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
@Vegaswikian: Hi. Why do you feel a panorama of the city is erroneous? Many other city pages (in fact, almost all), include a panoramic shot of the city. Is there something I'm missing? For the time being, I put it back in, but let's discuss, please. Onel5969 (talk) 12:58, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
Never mind. @Traveling Man: just answered my question. See? I was missing something.

Why does hatnote of this article say this article is only about the city proper?[edit]

I don't see why the scope of this article needs to be strictly limited to the city proper. I don't see any discussion about this issue on this talk page.

The title of this article is not City of Las Vegas. It is Las Vegas. That term commonly refers to the city + the strip. While I agree there should be a separate article on the strip, I think it's reasonable to have a summary subsection in this article about the strip, including noting it is not within the city limits. Also, I don't see the harm in having a photo of the strip there. --B2C 20:59, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

The article is about the city. The general usage of Las Vegas covers the Strip, Paradise, Winchester, The Township of Las Vegas and many other areas that are part of the Las Vegas Valley which also includes the city. The city only has about 5% of the hotel rooms, a fraction of the casinos and about 5% of the gaming revenue. Are you proposing that we merge the strip into the city? You have Clark County, which includes the Las Vegas Valley which includes the City of Las Vegas. The city is at the bottom of the grouping and not the top. Mentioning what is around the city is fair, but adding material already covered more accurately and more extensively is not appropriate here since there is no need to repeat everything, that we link things. Vegaswikian (talk) 21:12, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
Las Vegas is most famous for the strip. I'm suggesting it would improve this article to give the strip a short summary section of the strip, including a photo. Period. --B2C 23:30, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
The generally used term "Las Vegas" is most famous for the Strip. The Wikipedia article "Las Vegas" is about the city proper, and is thus NOT most famous for the Strip, as the Strip is not part of the city. There's already a short summary of the Strip, with the appropriate link. It's also worth noting that there's also a picture of the Strip in this article--arguably one picture too many, but I don't have the energy to go down that road at the moment. --Larry (talk) 23:42, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
But WHY is the WP article "Las Vegas" about the city proper? Why is the scope restricted so tightly? Political borders are not everything, especially when the "border" is a US municipality. --B2C 05:26, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
Because it is about the city! Most of what is Las Vegas is not within the city. That makes it too easy to mix in material that is not about the actual city by editors who don't realize this. Of course we could ignore the political boundaries completely and move the Las Vegas Valley article to the main name space and the problem would go away since that covers just about everything that is Las Vegas. But as we all know, you are opposed to that option. Vegaswikian (talk) 17:48, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
Tautological arguments (it is about the city proper because it is about the city) are not helpful. "The city" can be interpreted in a variety ways. What is the reason to be so strict in interpretation that we can't have a summary and photo of the strip which is so closely associated with the city? --B2C 21:46, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
As explained in previous discussions there are many reasons. One of which is the fact that most sources use the terms Las Vegas and city to mean the Las Vegas Valley or the Las Vegas metropolitan area. So when something is ambiguous and you elect to use the main name space for the least inclusive term, then you need to be strict to avoid more confusion. Vegaswikian (talk) 22:26, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

Smith Center for the Performing Arts - Photos?[edit]

Ahoi :) Could someone of you share images at Wikimedia Commons of the Smith Center for the Performing Arts? It's still U/C in the 2010 pic to the right. I mean it turned out really imposing, check the photos at David M. Schwarz Architects! This is purely magnificent. Neo Art Deco. I'd be so thankful for some recent photos. Thanks and all the best, Horst-schlaemma (talk) 11:02, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

I agree Horst-schlaemma! As an important part of Las Vegas, some striking night photos of The Smith Center would be much appreciated and extremely helpful to the article. Bporter28 (talk) 14:41, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

Sister cities - does Las Vegas still recognize them?[edit]

The section "Sister cities" states that Las Vegas' sister cities are designated by Sister Cities International. I just checked their web site, and the site doesn't list Las Vegas at all. This section has no other references except for Wikipedia itself -- which of course is not a valid reference. Should the section be removed? --Larry (talk) 17:30, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

Lacking any reliable sources, I have removed this section. As near as I can tell, Las Vegas once was a part of Sisters Cities International, but no longer is a member. --Larry (talk) 20:48, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
Hi Larry! You have to be careful about using SCI's interactive guide. There were two other cities I attempted to research which turned up just like Las Vegas, but in actuality, they had several sister cities. I think there is a glitch in their software. Regardless, at the top of their page, there is a tab labeled "City Guide", which is an 84 page pdf. It's more time consuming, but usually more accurate. It does show that Las Vegas has no sister cities (Reno does, as does Fallon). Just an FYI. Onel5969 (talk) 22:39, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
Thanks! That's definitely interesting. Fortunately, as you noted, they agree for Las Vegas. --Larry (talk) 23:19, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
hi there,you insisting to delete this section,but why don't you show any evidence who prove your claim? where says las vegas does not recognise that cities as sister cities from now on? do you have source? if you have not please don't remove my edittion because i put a source also.Find source and share it firstly before turn that to deleting fight. Here isn't a plase for feeding egos is it?--Kamuran Ötükenli (talk) 13:40, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
By the way discusing that before doesn't means you solve it.If Las Vegas is canceled participating in sister cities project then here must be some anouncements about it! If you insisting about your claim you should you must prove it. But you just saying "this is how i say" and deleting the edition of others. you can't do that and also its against wiki WP:NPOV.--Kamuran Ötükenli (talk) 13:55, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
Hi. Please read above, the evidence is there. The source which is the standard for sister cities is Sister Cities International. They are the controlling organization. If they don't recognize that Las Vegas has sister cities, then guess what, Las Vegas doesn't have sister cities. This isn't about egos, it's about facts. Answer.com from who knows when is not a valid source. Onel5969 (talk) 13:57, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
Onel5969 is correct. The source named above (Sister Cities International) shows that Las Vegas no longer has any sister cities. Answers.com is user editable, and therefore may not be used as a reliable source. --Larry/Traveling_Man (talk) 15:15, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
No there is not any evidence, to say "i didn't see it" is not an evidence it's doesn't works like this. If Las Vegas is officially quit from sister cities project there must be an official announcement or press relase about it. do you have something like that? If you don't please find some one and then you can claim something more than "i didn't see it on web page"... --Kamuran Ötükenli (talk) 09:59, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
making the page as "semi protected"! very ethical very academical and very smart behaviour,congratulations.Long live ego, who cares the neutral point of view and information...--Kamuran Ötükenli (talk) 14:38, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
Not sure what your issue is. The evidence has been provided in the official list by Sister Cities, which has NONE for Las Vegas. This isn't rocket science. Onel5969 (talk) 14:45, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
As Onel5969 has said, proof has been provided. In any case, if you wish to have a statement included in the article, Wikipedia policy is that the burden is on you to provide proof. --Larry/Traveling_Man (talk) 15:41, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

Main Image[edit]

What are we requiring here for a better image upload?--Mark Miller (talk) 22:29, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

Anything that is actually in or of the city. Vegaswikian (talk) 22:42, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
Do you have a suggestion as to what you feel would be a good representation of do you feel a skyline image is best?--Mark Miller (talk) 23:03, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
What I will do is upload my best estimations of what I think would work here in this section and we can discuss whether or not any of them would do as a main image or if the one currently used should remain.--Mark Miller (talk) 23:11, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
What few images I seem to have from the city may not be as good as what we have now. It may be better to look towards flickr for something. But if anything I have is worth a look I'll posts them here. Many turned out to blurry or had other structures not in the city limits also in the pics.--Mark Miller (talk) 00:27, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
What about a montage? If we can agree on 5-7 pics, I can make a montage, similar to the one I created for Phoenix, Arizona.Onel5969 (talk) 01:08, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

Hi again. I'm going to start posting pics (all of which are from Commons, and usable). Anyone feel free to add, but let's keep them numbered, so we can easily talk about them. Some might not be appropriate since they are more of the strip than the city.

Onel5969 (talk) 01:51, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the work, Onel5969. You're correct that some of the pictures are not of the city. Here's what I think I see, by number:

1: not of the city

2. if that Charleston Blvd looking west, some of the picture tp the right might be the city, but I 'm not sure.

3. not of the city - oh, the irony of the name of the project! CityCenter is located on the Strip.

4. Yes! - with the Strip in the background.

5. I'm terrible when it comes to recognizing images, and don't know which direction this is pointing. It might or might not be the city.

6. Same as #5, although I think parts of this are of the city.

7. not of the city - mostly of the Strip.

8. Yes!

9. not of the city - the Strip in the background.

10. not of the city - the Strip, looking south.

--Larry (talk) 02:21, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

Actually...number 1 does appear to be the city proper. I believe the Stratosphere and the surrounding building are within the city limits....and the airport is not really depicted even though there is a jet landing in the image.--Mark Miller (talk) 06:47, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
Number 2 would have worked if it wasn't such a blurry image and...well it doesn't seem very representative of the city itself.
Number three is not in the city proper.
Number 4 is the one I was hoping to replace with something better. If nothing better is available...I opt to keep it.
Number 5 is of the city proper. While I am not a resident, just checking the closest buildings seems to confirm the direction is aimed within the city proper.
Number 6 does depict the city proper to the left....but half the image is not.
Number 7 is not the city.
I like number 8 as an image but think a single structure (at least this one) does not represent the city well.
Number 9 is not the city.
Number 10 is not the city.
As a side note...why is this article not called or titled "Las Vegas, Nevada"? That seems to be the way Wikipedia handles city locations for the most part with a few exceptions. Perhaps Vegas is one of those exceptions so I only note this and am not attempting to create a discussion around it. Right now I feel the best one of the images posted is #5 but it could use some photo shop to remove some elements in the sky. My second choice would be #1, but there are elements in it that are not the city proper.--Mark Miller (talk) 07:13, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
Number 1 is not of the city. That's taken in Paradise of buildings mostly in Paradise. The strat is in the city and given it's height it is visible from just about anywhere in the valley. Vegaswikian (talk) 17:40, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
Ok, that's about what I thought it might be.--Mark Miller (talk) 21:20, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
I was at commons doing some looking and I found another image similar to #5 but much sharper and closer. Now..I did do some photoshop and reloaded it because I felt it improved the thumbnail but that can always be reversed if need be. I am changing my vote to #11 with #5 as a second choice.--Mark Miller (talk) 21:39, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
I agree that #11 is good. It's from 2008, but that isn't critical. It shows a lot of the Fremont Street area, plus other areas of the city in the foreground and background. --Larry (talk) 03:11, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
Yep, that's downtown. Vegaswikian (talk) 18:22, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Montage[edit]

Okay Vegaswikian, Mark Miller, and Larry - I took the 6 pics out of those above which were of the city (I'd like to replace 2 of the aerial shots from the Stratosphere with other more specific photos, and will do so if you can suggest some. But here's the montage I came up with. Thoughts? Onel5969 (talk) 22:27, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

Las Vegas Montage 1
Las Vegas Montage
Las Vegas Montage Option 3
@Onel5969:, sorry it took so long to respond (in my defense, I got distracted trying to be a good citizen by attending to articles for deletion). With the caveat that I'm the last person you should ask about how things look, I think your montage is a definite improvement over the current lead image. Given the importance of the Stratosphere to the skyline, I think it's justifiable to include the picture with the airplane and the Strat. Thanks for all the hard work! --Larry/Traveling_Man (talk) 21:09, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
If you need a picture of the Strat, then

this, this or this would be better. There are many other choices. The picture with the airplane is really bad for it's perspective. It makes it look like the tower is next to the airport! It is not. Vegaswikian (talk) 22:06, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

@Traveling Man, Larry/Traveling Man: - lol. Not sure I can consider a single response a consensus... but I'm going to put the montage up, maybe that will generate some discussion! Onel5969 (talk) 22:33, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
Yea, LOL. Two comments and one objection and that's consensus? Vegaswikian (talk) 16:45, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
I'll swap out one of those other pic for the one with the airplane. Give me a day or so. Onel5969 (talk) 18:15, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
Thanks. I'm also going to move the picture here around if I can. It is really messing with the layout of the comments. Vegaswikian (talk) 18:29, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Hi, @Bporter28:! I reverted your change to Las Vegas. Two of the six images were not of the city proper. Also, there's a very recent discussion about the main image on the talk page, beginning with section "Main Image", then continuing with this section ("Montage"). If you want to discuss this issue, it would be best to add your concerns here. --Larry/Traveling_Man (talk) 04:09, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

Hi Larry/Traveling_Man! Thanks for the feedback. I was unaware of this conversation on the Talk Page. I am concerned about the new montage as many of the photos are virtually the same and do not actually SHOW the city, as many of the other collages for major cities on Wikipedia do. I have currently reverted to the original photo. I feel we should hold off on the montage until we can compile an appropriate montage which does more justice for the city and shows more of what the city is about and has to offer.(talk) 21:23, 21 October 2014 (UTC)


How do we feel about this one? User:Bporter28 (talk) 21:23, 21 October 2014 (UTC) (Montage moved up next to other montage)

I like some of the pics in the second montage, will switch them out with some in the first. By Thursday, I'll have a new montage (am working on a different project, sorry about the delay). Onel5969 (talk) 12:32, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

Sounds good! I feel that the photo of downtown in the upper left hand corner of the first montage needs to be switched out, as that photo is several years old and the skyline has changed quite a bit since then. The image is also fairly low quality. I also feel that the plane should definitely be switched out as it doesn't really have anything to do with the city specifically. The World Market Center, Smith Center, Lou Ruvo Brain Center, and City Hall are all much more relevant and important to the article in question. If you're looking to replace the downtown photo, the panorama in the bottom of the second montage is a good substitute. User:Bporter28 (talk) 13:31, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

In the meantime Onel5969, I would really like to use the second montage as I think it shows more relevance to the article, and a variety of landmarks rather than just desert skyline. Thank you! On a side note, I think the second montage that we have is completely appropriate, showing both the city skyline, as well as the landmarks contained within, all with clear, high quality images. Nothing is redundant and the montage is appropriate to the article. All other major city montages on Wikipedia show the landmarks of the city, and this one shows those within the city proper of Las Vegas, not those within Paradise or Winchester. User:Bporter28 (talk) 14:18, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

Onel5969, I would like to use the new montage above (Las Vegas Montage Option 3) for the city as I spent a great deal of time compiling it. The new montage shows great detail about what the city has to offer and deals only with the city proper. Each image is a Creative Commons license and/or my own work. This took nearly a month to put together. I feel the new montage would be beneficial to the city as each image is of high quality and the montage shows each building and district in great, clear detail- much more in line with Wikipedia standards. I would also like to include information about Las Vegas being a leader in the hospitality industry because it is. Thank you! User:Bporter28 (talk) 08:25, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing it to the talk page, Bporter28. And thank you for all the effort you put into it. Personally, I like the other one you had up better, but am not adverse to making a change, that's just my personal preference, I think it's a bit busy, with the extra 3 pics. I'm letting other interested editors know about here: Vegaswikian, Mark Miller, and Larry. I would like to hear what they (and any others who read this, of course) have to say. Onel5969 (talk) 20:16, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for the prompt response Onel5969! I appreciate your opinion. I think the extra photos do justice for the city as they show more of the city as a whole, rather than just three buildings and two skyline scenes. When I look at other major cities, such as New York City and Los Angeles, each has many different photos in their montage and I tried to do the same here for better quality standards. I tried to find photos in the new montage that showed greater clarity. The Smith Center, for example, now the entire building can be seen rather than just one portion of it. In addition, I was able to factor in city districts, such as Fremont East, Arts District, and the industrial district around Charleston that show more of Las Vegas city proper as whole, rather than just the Downtown Gaming area. Thanks again! I appreciate your help. As you can tell, I care a great deal about Las Vegas. Haha ! User:Bporter28 (talk) 12:43, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Vegaswikian, Mark Miller, Larry, Onel5969 I've looked at several other city pages on Wikipedia for quality assurance. Phoenix, Arizona, New York City, and Miami, among others each have montages which show an extensive variety of cityscapes and locations. Let me know what you guys think! I'd love some discussion. Thanks! User:Bporter28 (talk) 12:30, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

You're asking my advice on appearance? Groan. There's a reason I'm not an interior decorator ;-). Ok...well...here goes. I'm using a desktop monitor (24 inch) at 1920x1080 pixels. At that size/resolution, if I view the images full screen, I like the new montage [1] better. I like the images of some of the newer buildings, and the wider angle images of the city are big enough. However, if I view the montages as part of the article, I like the older image [2] better. It gives me a better feel of Las Vegas. The result: I hate to be wishy washy, but I don't have a strong opinion either way. I could be happy with either one. --21:54, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Hahaha Thanks for the feedback Larry! :) I'm glad you like it! I can also move the daytime skyline to the center if anyone prefers. I took a screenshot of what the montage looks like in the article, but I'm not sure how to upload it here. You can check it out in the revision history though! I'm glad you guys are good with the new one as well. I think it's better suited to the article, city, and quality standards in comparison to other Wikipedia city articles. The current one is rather plain. User:Bporter28 (talk) 14:05, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

I prefer option 3.--Mark Miller (talk) 06:23, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Mark Miller and thank you everyone for all of the kind remarks, help, and feedback! I'm going to go ahead and make the change as we are either for it and/or not opposed to making the change/happy with either one. If you guys have any additional comments, or if you would prefer the daytime skyline photo in the center as opposed to the nighttime shot of the industrial district, please don't hesitate to let me know as I can change the arrangement in the montage! Thanks again guys! User:Bporter28 (talk) 14:05, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Population estimates[edit]

I am curious as to why more recent U.S. Census population estimates are not shown in the article. Checking the edit history, I note that someone tried to add the 2012 estimates a while ago, but were reverted by someone else who said in their summary that only the 2010 census count should be in the infobox. Fair enough, I suppose, but I don't see any discussion of that here on the talk page or in the archive. The information I would add is the 2013 census estimate, which is 603,488, up from 583,756 at the 2010 census. Here's the source: [3]. --Ken Gallager (talk) 19:05, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Hi Ken! It's a consensus among editors of city pages, and goes all across all pages regarding US Cities. The rationale was that estimates are simply guesses, and sometimes are pretty far off (for example, the estimates for Phoenix were way off prior to the 2010 census). The Vegas estimate is included in the "Historical Population" box in the Demographics section. Feel free to update it to 2013 there, and replace the citation. I hope this explains it. Onel5969 (talk) 20:47, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
Done. I also have amended the 2010 population figure. The infobox figure was wrong to begin with, but the published 2010 figure changed by 20 from how it was originally listed, following the result of a Count Question Resolution process that the Census Bureau makes available. It only changes the total population of the city; the demographic subtotals will still total to the original 2010 census figure. That's how they do it... --Ken Gallager (talk) 14:02, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Question[edit]

I'm seeing that 12.2% had a female householder with no husband present, but I'm not seeing the rest. What percentage had a male householder with no wife present?