Talk:Law of superposition
|WikiProject Geology||(Rated B-class, Mid-importance)|
|WikiProject Archaeology||(Rated B-class, High-importance)|
Removed the following quote from article pending source information.
- in a series of layers and interfacial features, as originally created,the upper units of stratification are younger and the lower are older, for each must have been deposited on, or created by the removal of, a pre-existing mass of archaeological stratification.
The implication was that it was a quote from Steno, but the wording doesn't seem to fit. Provide source and re-insert. (also fixed minor typo mush --> must). Vsmith 01:34, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
Examples of reversed sequences
- 1--The edge-layers of an Impact crater, can have an overturned sequence of rocks. It's still in the same sequence, just up–side–down, (the layers thrown radially outward, and overturned).
- 2--A Thrust fault can also produce an up–side–down layer of rocks. (It can be a trait of the particular fault in question.)---MMcAnnis...Mmcannis 18:21, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
Shark teeth (fossils) embedded in sed. rock
- I found a shark tooth in a 2 Million yr old cliff, with the 2 mill Sanddollars that the cliff contained. This(a 1 unit Field Paleontology class following a 3-unit class), was at El Golfo, in Mexico, south of Yuma, Arizona (extreme SW, on California border). I just started reading the Nicolas Steno article. WoW, as to how he started. It is fantastically amazing that the religion debate will continue long after every single one of us who reads any words here, are looooonnnggg gone. (Darwin even wrote to Alfred Russel Wallace, and stated the exact same thing, (in reference to the stage-floor, public debates, which were the method of debating "ideas" in the 1850's, and in reference to a particular "Frenchman" who was his Antagonist for years). End of note. Steno must have been conflicted, to have always been fighting the 'religious battles' of his life.Mmcannis 21:38, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
The shark teeth in stone, is where he started ! (And, I had cupped my hand below a soft spot on the cliff, 8 ft up, and about 3 fossil items fell into my palm(1 the small,shiny tooth!)....hhmmm..."try to make it real, try to make it real, but compared to what, (from the song))---MMcAnnis,YumaMmcannis 21:38, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
- At least I got to state an historical opinion, before a change. (from the ArizDesert)..Mmcannis 07:38, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
See also, for main article
I think some additions could be made in one line, to to the see also section: (didn't bother to read the biblical paragraphs–I hope the religious police can take care of it better than I; I get too emotional about the other species-group out there)-)
So thought I'd put the items here before putting anything into the article. (From the Arizona-(Sonoran Desert))....--Mmcannis 22:48, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Law of superposition and the bible
Not reading the paragraphs, and all, I would assume that only One, or Two at the most paragraphs should be bothered with, in reference to the Bible. There are plenty of religious based discussions of Gilgamesh, and the Flood Stories, and all, or a separate article discussing off-handed-ly the problems with the religious history compared with actual Geological history, and the "Law of Superposition". Like i said above, the religious police, i hope can put any cogent discussions in context, and in 1, or 2 paragraphs..... from the AZdesert..--Mmcannis 23:17, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Topics:Geology, stratigraphy, bible
I didn't have major problems with the Bible section, but it was about "geology", as Mdotley understood by redoing it.
I had added the Original Hamblin reference and opened the book (Not to reread it though). I think I understand Now that they used Principle all through the Geology book, because that is how Science is Explained... by principles of this, and principles of that. Annddd.. those are the principles seen by all those Folks of old who saw this stuff before we are seeing it now on Planet Earth. Our 21st century eyes, can see the same 'rocks' and 'strata' they saw with their eyes. (and saw with their minds). This is what is so kewl about this is that, For Them, in their time of Late Medieval "Wars of religion vs Geology", at least they could get away from it by looking at stratigraphy, and fossils in rocks of Faunal succession, and at least dream about what Truth really was.
I assume our 1970's USA, and world-society elevated the Law of faunal succession and Law of superposition to those "starry-eyed" levels to get away from the crazies, if you know what I mean. Here's my personal story: I just set up some of the Category:Natural history of the Galápagos items, and just added the Cocos Plate to it, and Category:Natural history of Central America, and of Mexico. So the galapagos is a result of the Cocos plate separation from the other plates. (I should have already known). But that is what it's about. trying to find answers. So yes, I like the 2- laws, even tho they come from the "Principles" used in Geology.
And I'll reread this article now, but I never did think a section with the word "Bible" was appropriate in a Geology/ Stratigraphy/ "evolution of earth" article. my thoughts: from the ArizonaDeserts-- ..-Mmcannis 06:20, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
Hello, I'm first in here and I'm not good at English.
This is very complicated because it's the first time I visited here.
Hmm...Can anyone explain me about the "Law of crosscutting relationships"??
I'll really appreciate if you tell me.
p.s. Excuse my poor English.
- I dig foundations and build a wall, hundreds of years later someone else builds a wall in a different direction in the same spot, their foundations cut my foundations - so hundreds of years later you can tell that because my foundations are cut by their foundations my wall was there first. EdwardLane (talk) 09:49, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
Law of superposition thoroughly refuted
I am surprised that no mention has been made of Guy Berthault, Pierre Julien, and Yongiang Lan. Berthault has done extensive research in the area of sedimentology that included disproving the 'law' of superposition. Please see Experiments on stratification of heterogeneous sand mixtures (Julien et al) at http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~pierre/ce_old/resume/Paperspdf/Julien%20et%20al.%20France93.pdf for starters.
I am not suggesting the page be removed. Despite the law being nothing of the sort, it is still used extensively. Instead, I think a section at the top should be included with relevant citations as to why the law has been disproven and something added to the summary to reflect that fact. Scott.Balfour (talk) 00:30, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- Berthault's supposed refutation of the law (or principle) of superposition has been greatly over-exaggerated by young earth creationists. There are exceptions to almost every scientific law and principle as new discoveries are made. This does not invalidate the principle itself, it merely means it is not an absolute. Additionally, Berthault decided to criticize superposition as originally proposed by Steno rather that dealing with the modern definition, for some reason. Dr. Kevin Henke has countered Berthault's claims online, and demonstrated that his research essentially did little more than reiterate exceptions that geologists had already been aware of for some time. Which is the likely reason geologists have not paid much attention to Berthault's YEC conclusions. See http://noanswersingenesis.org.au/questions_berthault_k_henke.htm. DyslexicDNA (talk) 23:18, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
- Still, it must be awkward for conventional geologists, seeing Berthault has extensive videotaped experiments showing that moving water will simultaneously deposit sediments in distinct stratigraphic layers, much like is seen all over the Earth today. This isn't even someone's "theory"... It's direct experimental, observational evidence.
Why shouldn't such evidence directly countering the "law of superposition" be mentioned in the article? How can a direct observation be considered fringe? Very awkward, indeed.
Also reliably sourced: Berthault's experiments are well documented and published in secular Geology journals out of France. Here's a link to one: http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~pierre/ce_old/resume/Paperspdf/Julien%20et%20al.%20France93.pdf220.127.116.11 (talk) 18:20, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
i took this out; While discussing the origins of [[mountain]]s in ''[[The Book of Healing]]'' in 1027, [[Avicenna]] first outlined the principle of the superposition of strata as follows: :''It is also possible that the sea may have happened to flow little by little over the land consisting of both plain and mountain, and then have ebbed away from it. ... It is possible that each time the land was exposed by the ebbing of the sea a layer was left, since we see that some mountains appear to have been piled up layer by layer, and it is therefore likely that the clay from which they were formed was itself at one time arranged in layers. One layer was formed first, then at a different period, a further was formed and piled, upon the first, and so on. Over each layer there spread a substance of different material, which formed a partition between it and the next layer; but when petrification took place something occurred to the partition which caused it to break up and disintegrate from between the layers (possibly referring to unconformity). ... As to the beginning of the sea, its clay is either sedimentary or primeval, the latter not being sedimentary. It is probable that the sedimentary clay was formed by the disintegration of the strata of mountains. Such is the formation of mountains.''<ref>Quoted in [http://www.muslimheritage.com/uploads/ibnsina.pdf The contribution of Ibn Sina (Avicenna) to the development of the Earth Sciences], among other sources</ref>
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