Talk:Liam Neeson

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Irish not Irish-American.[edit]

Liam Neeson like Pierce Brosnan was born in (Northern) Ireland to Irish parents, who had Irish parents. He lived there for most of his early years, he holds an Irish passport and was naturalised in the US for the purpose of remaining there indefinitely because he is a Hollywood actor. This does not make him American. Irish-American is a term used to describe American-born people who have an Irish parent(s) or grandparent(s). John Travolta, Mel Gibson, the Baldwin brothers are examples of Irish-American. Please do not change this back to Irish-American as it is extremely misleading. Stevenbfg (talk) 15:16, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Neeson's decision to become an American was not related to remaining in the US indefinitely, as all naturalized Americans are required to be permanent residents for a minimum of 5 years. He already had the right to remain indefinitely in the US for some time, and later decided to become an American, taking an oath stating 'I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen'
As to the term Irish-American, it has been used by Americans to describe their ancestry/national origin (albeit not without controversy), but stating two nationalities when someone has two nationalities is a regular practice. Look at Christoph Waltz (Austrian-German) Linus Torvalds (Finnish American) Edward James Olmos (Mexican American; he's an American-born naturalized Mexican).
Confusing national origin with Nationality has been a pet issue of mine on wikipedia, but Irish-American here accurately describes both of his nationalities, not his ancestry (as Irish-American sometimes does in the case of Americans like the Baldwins, JFK, and Gibson)Tippx (talk) 20:02, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
Irish-American only describes someone who holds both Irish and American citizenship. To describe someone with American citizenship and Irish ancestry you write Irish American (without a hyphen) with Irish as an adjective to American, further specifying the latter. Basic English grammar. Tvx1 (talk) 19:37, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
If, according to the Good Friday Agreement, he can be considered an Irish citizen, and if he has American citizenship, then he's Irish-American. If he's properly considered a UK citizen, then he's British-American. Basic English grammar has not been violated. If you're suggesting he should be considered American, that's fine. Then change his nationality to American or Irish American. He's definitely an American citizen, he's definitely a British citizen, and he can claim Irish citizenship. But it's not strictly speaking accurate to call him Irish and not at least mention his UK and US citizenship. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 01:30, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
If he holds Irish citizenship as well, it would be most accurate to describe him as British-Irish-American Tvx1 (talk) 16:11, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
Honestly, I'd have no problem with him being labeled British-Irish-American if accuracy is Wikipedia's concern. It might not be the most aesthetically pleasing label, but an encyclopedia should be concerned with accuracy. There are a lot of sticky ethnic politics involved in discussions of British vs Irish identity (and Welsh vs British or Scottish vs British identity for that matter) but Wikipedia can avoid implicitly taking a side by being careful about how it deals with nationality. In my opinion, an article ought to state a subject's legal status and devote a separate section to ethnic identification if that's a big part of who they are. Neeson's identity clearly generates enough debate that the page might benefit from a concise and well researched discussion devoted to that topic.

Not in source.[edit]

Sorry, but the BBC source does not make it clear that he is an Irish citizen. He wasn't born in Ireland so you'll have to do better than that you fenians. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 00:32, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

A source where Liam Neeson identified himself (and his sons) as Irish citizens is "George" magazine, June 1999 issue. I can no longer find it online, but it exists. Whether that means he should here be called an Irish citizen, I leave to others to fight out, but Neeson directly called himself an Irish citizen, so your comment about where he was born is irrelevant. And whether people are 'fenians' or not is even more irrelevant. Nuclare (talk) 11:50, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
The issue as it stands is that his British citizenship is not included thus implicitly stating (incorrectly) that he does not have it. I'm minded to leave it as is though. The bizarre lead sentence neatly sums up the desperate lengths that the editors will go to in order to push their agenda on this page. Having that flaged up to the reader is perhaps more useful than absolute accuracy. Eckerslike (talk) 16:27, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
The problem is that sources where Neeson has addressed the issue of citizenship, he has himself shown an 'agenda' that doesn't include 'British citizenship'. In the article I reference, he directly calls himself an Irish citizen without any reference to also being a British citizen. He wasn't specifically talking about Irishness either (he was talking about why--at that time--he couldn't participate in politics in the U.S. where he lived). When he later announced his U.S. citizenship he said that he became a U.S. citizen "but I'm still a proud Irishman." Again, no mention whatsoever of Britishness--citizenship or otherwise. I don't think the lead sentence (or anywhere in the article) should be a dumping ground of citizenships. For lots of actors, we probably don't even know all the citizenships they could have. It should be a choice of the *best* way to describe him. Frankly, I think the evidence, taken as a whole, points toward Irish. Although we can debate that, I'd say it's reasonably clear that it doesn't point toward British being the best way to describe him. Nuclare (talk) 12:16, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
I think your misunderstanding the concept of citizenship. I has nothing to do with what the individual declares but is a legal status that can only be gained or loss by official legal procedures. He gained British citizenship by being born in the UK. He remains a UK citizen until he renounces it legally by declaring as such to the British government. Interviews where he fails to declare his Britishness cannot be considered evidence that he has done this. In fact you would expect the opposite as renouncing citizenship is generally done as a form of protest.
Frankly I think that speculation about national identity should be left out of lead altogether. Instead simply let the facts within the article speak for themselves. The agenda is not simply stating the fact he has Irish citizenship but its appearance in the first sentence. It systematic of the insistence that his Irishness be emphasised at the exclusion of any other narrative. Eckerslike (talk) 20:32, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
I don't misunderstand the concept of citizenship; you are misnunderstanding my point. A citizenship that technically exists for an individual isn't necessarily noteworthy by wiki standards and certainly not necessarily noteworthy in the sense of being in the lead. Wikipedia is not about documenting every legal detail about every individual. And citizenship also isn't the be all and end all of what descriptive adjective(s) should/shouldn't be used to describe someone in the lead. I agree we shouldn't have speculation in the lead, and we shouldn't have laundry lists of citizenships there either. Nuclare (talk) 21:50, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
Perhaps we should change it from "an Irish actor with Irish and American citizenship" to "to an Irish actor who also holds American citizenship". That way it doesn't directly state he has Irish citizenship which we are not 100% sure off. He is however Irish by the fact he states that its his nationality. Its no different from Sean Connery being called Scottish even though he's a British Citizen. Does anyone agree with me changing the sentence to what I said above? Stevenbfg (talk) 08:16, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
How about we simply say "Liam Neeson is an Irish actor"? No controversy there. His American citizenship is stated in personal life anyway. (talk) 08:31, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
Wrong, sadly, it's not that easy. That is exactly the most controversial thing. The fact is that he's not Irish or American, or at least not solely or just the two together, he's Northern Irish /British. - June 2013 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:C440:20:1116:640C:C042:8CC7:41E7 (talk) 14:26, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
Liam Neeson, like everyone else born in "Northern Ireland" prior to the GFA is an Irish citizen according to the nationality laws of the Irieh Republic. That some persons born in the north of Ireland have claimed British citizenship and choose not to recognize or claim their Irish citizenship for sectarian/partisan reasons does not change the simple fact that those who do --- such as Mr Neeson and myself --- are legally Irish citizens and are recognized as such by the Republic of Ireland and the rest of the world. If some Unionist/Loyalist sorts don't like it, so what? Our Irish citizenship is legally unquestioned and none of your damn business. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 10:02, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
Oh dear, what a pathetic, bitter little person we are. Neeson was awarded and accepted an OBE. That's what he thinks of your arrogant brand of nationalism and Brit-hatred. Now go back to living several hundred years ago, because almost no-one in the world gives a crap about your stupid "struggle". (talk) 20:49, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

Source for his wealth...[edit]

I don't see it anywhere. Is it really necessary for it to be in the infobox anyway? --Somchai Sun (talk) 12:43, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

The Endurance: Shackleton's Legendary Antarctic Expedition[edit]

Liam Neeson was not the narrator in "The Endurance: Shackleton's Legendary Antarctic Expedition", Kevin Spacey was. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lee91355 (talkcontribs) 17:32, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Yes Neeson was. Murry1975 (talk) 17:38, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Best known films[edit]

The lead currently includes the sentence ...some of Neeson's best known films include <endless list of films that anyone who has ever edited the page has liked>. Judgement could be used remove some of the films but may lead to arguments about which films he is "best known" for. Perhaps some objective measures could be used to select a short list. His top grossing films (out of the ones listed) are Star Wars, Chronicles of Narnia 1, Clash of the Titans, Chronicles of Narnia 2 & 3, Batman Begins and Taken. Award nominations could also be used. Perhaps the sentence could also be rephrased too. Eckerslike (talk) 18:19, 2 March 2014 (UTC)