Talk:Line of succession to the British throne

New addition

Just curious, as an addition has been made to the list, who is The Hon. Raymond Campbell-Windsor (b. 1997)? and how does he fit in? I might just be having a moment of senility here.--UnQuébécois (talk) 19:40, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Seems to have gone now Lewisdl (talk) 10:06, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Confused!

Hey, I'm a little confused, shouldn't the first 39 on our list match the list given by the Royal website? Right now it's not looking that way. Thanks! --UnQuébécois (talk) 18:50, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Act of Succession

Electress Sophia was the wife of the Elector of Hanover and grand-daughter of James I. When Queen Anne's only surviving child died, the Electress Sophia became the nearest Protestant in line for the English throne. The Government were anxious that her Roman Catholic brother, James (known as the Old Pretender), should not inherit the throne and so, in 1701, they passed the Act of Settlement ensuring the succession of Sophia. In 1705, because she was of German nationality she was naturalised as a British subject by the Act for the Naturalization of the Most Excellent Princess Sophia, Electress and Duchess Dowager of Hanover, and the Issue of her Body. Sophia died before Queen Anne, but her son succeeded to the throne as George I. The effects of the 1705 Act had been complicated slightly by the Royal Marriages Act 1772, which included a proviso that the marriages of certain descendants of King George II would be null and void unless the consent of the Crown had first been obtained. This however does not apply to the descendants of Princesses who have married into foreign families and, as most of George II's descendants were through the female line, the restriction has a limited effect.

(ERIDU-DREAMING (talk) 15:15, 5 February 2012 (UTC)).

Sounds like Original research to me. --UnQuébécois (talk) 16:08, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

You added, "By the terms of the Act of Settlement 1701 the succession is limited to the descendants of the Electress Sophia of Hanover". I do not see this in constitutional texts or in the wording of the 1701 Act. TFD (talk) 16:17, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Added a citation. Opera hat (talk) 16:21, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Yes, however, the reference provided previously states that the act of settlement stipulates that the throne was to go to Sophia or her descendants. --UnQuébécois (talk) 16:30, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

The source you added is ambiguous. It equally means that Sophia's descendants who are not Protestants are excluded from the throne. The Act does not say that only her descendants may ascend the throne and no constitutional law books say that. TFD (talk) 16:33, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Not my reference, one that was there.--UnQuébécois (talk) 16:37, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

But I did ad another reference stating the same, Sophia or her descendants. Just a quick question, reading the current version of the act of settlement, it does not seem to exclude any other faith than catholic, does that mean a Muslim or Jew could in theory... ah never mind it's not important. :)--UnQuébécois (talk) 17:04, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

The Act says "that from and after the Deceases of His said Majesty our now Sovereign Lord and of Her Royall Highness the Princess Ann of Denmark and for Default of Issue of the said Princess Ann and of His Majesty respectively the Crown and Regall Government of the said Kingdoms of England France and Ireland and of the Dominions thereunto belonging with the Royall State and Dignity of the said Realms and all Honours Stiles Titles Regalities Prerogatives Powers Jurisdictions and Authorities to the same belonging and appertaining shall be remain and continue to the said most Excellent Princess Sophia and the Heirs of Her Body being Protestants" (my emphasis). Seems pretty clear to me that this restricts the succession to Sophia's descendants. Opera hat (talk) 17:32, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

The Act does not say that if the line were to become extinct that the throne would become vacant. Presumably the inheritance would pass to the next heir according to common law, and the section pertaining to the heirs of the body of Sophia would become obsolete. In any case, I have started a discussion thread at WP:NORN#Line of succession to the British throne. TFD (talk) 18:17, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

The next heir according to common law would be different in England, Wales and Northern Ireland (the senior descendant of Mary Tudor, Queen of France, currently Lord Jersey) and Scotland (the senior descendant of Mary Stewart, Countess of Arran, currently Lord Derby, I believe). Opera hat (talk) 19:02, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

This thread should have been killed at birth. We're here to discuss how to improve the article; it's not a message board for anything related to the succession. The opening question - and it's not even a question but a set of declarative statements - is not about anything in the article. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 20:53, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

I agree entirely. To the extent that there is a question, it is whether the article should address the eventuality of all however-many-thousand living people currently in the line of succession all dying at once. Oh please. Happy‑melon 21:04, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. Original message was left after the user made a change and removed referenced material. Did not mean to start anything extraordinary!--UnQuébécois (talk) 21:27, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

To get back to the actual point, then: the Act of Settlement says the succession "shall be, remain and continue to [...] Sophia and the heirs of her body being Protestants". The royal.gov.uk website supports the interpretation that this restricts the succession to descendants of Sophia and nobody else. User:TFD disagrees. Opera hat (talk) 23:27, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Lady Amelia Windsor

The article for Lady Amelia Windsor (#29) states (uncited btw) that she converted to Catholicism in January 2012. Doesn't that means she now needs to be excluded? Just wanted to bring it up. --06:04, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

I would wait for confirmation (a citable source), she is still listed on the royals website.--UnQuébécois (talk) 19:56, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Number of people "potentially in line"

"The work of genealogical authors and amateur researchers suggests that there are several thousand people potentially in line." Surely the entire population of the earth is "potentially in line", if everybody's descent could be traced back far enough? I, for example, am a descendent of Edward III, so I am "potentially in line" along no doubt with several million others. Surely the real question is how far the line of succession can reliably be traced? Intelligent Mr Toad (talk) 06:46, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Under the succession act, the Crown was settled on Sophia and her direct descendants, of which there are several thousand. My understanding is that in the event she had no descendants that the common law of inheritance would decide an heir, but other editors believe that the Crown would cease to exist. TFD (talk) 07:15, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for that, I understand the point now: we Plantagenets can never get our kingdom back. I would think, however, that if the line of Sophia's descendants failed, Parliament would simply legislate to give the throne to someone else. It's been established ever since 1688 that the throne is in the gift of Parliament. Intelligent Mr Toad (talk) 07:34, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Maybe they could hold a lottery. TFD (talk) 07:42, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Once every 4 or 5 years, and call it an election?--UnQuébécois (talk) 19:37, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

The article should say, "eligible to succeed." "Potentially in line" is an odd and confusing phrase. Kauffner (talk) 12:35, 27 February 2012 (UTC)