Talk:List of Alamo defenders

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Why I created this list[edit]

I've been working on Wikipedia:Find-A-Grave famous people lately. A number of times, I've come across Find-A-Grave entries where the entry (sometimes the whole text) claims that someone is an "Alamo defender". In fact so often that I started wondering if it was true, and if so, if I could use that information to find their articles on Wikipedia.

So I found a source on the web, and transcribed the information into Wikipedia format (facts aren't copyrightable, formats are). For ultimate benefit, the entries need to be links to the people's articles (if they exist) - but that will have to wait for another day. --Alvestrand (talk) 21:40, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Redlinks on defender names[edit]

I've removed the wikilinks that have been added to some of the names, creating redlinks. I don't think that most of those men would meet the notability criteria for their own article (hence them being grouped in a list). I've been doing a lot of research on the Alamo and the Texas Revolution in general, and there is not a lot of information about most of the defenders available. I'd suggest that we just add wikilinks if/when enough information is found to create a decent article on one of them. I am, of course, open to discussion. Karanacs (talk) 20:36, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

I agreee that we don't need redlinks. It seems that someone has added just about all the Alamo defenders to Find-A-Grave, which is how I started looking for an on-Wiki list of them - but a listing on Find-A-Grave is neither a reliable source nor an indication of notability. But I'm happy that someone's trying to create bluelinks where they're possible. --Alvestrand (talk) 18:20, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
I believe we should keep the wikilinks; which will allow people to keep adding more information about the defenders as more is found out; instead of people redirecting the page. Also; maybe have an whole page like this with sub articles about the defenders. We need more discussion on this; and I suggest that the defenders articles should not be deleted. (Also, a side note; alot of these defenders have places; buildings; schools;cities named after them; and it should be well noted)--Andrewcool (talk) 06:30, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
If there is enough information in reliable sources to create a full article about someone, then it's easy to create one. For many of the defenders, it won't be possible to create a solid article without doing original research, and we don't want to encourage people to delve into those. Karanacs (talk) 12:25, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
I think with most of them the information that exists about them can be summarized in the notes section of the defender list itself. See the link on footnote 39 for information about the reinforcements from Gonzales if anyone wants to add more info about that group. I agree that most of the defenders, other than perhaps, Bowie, Crockett and Travis don't really need their own articles.Tanktimus (talk) 13:45, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
Maybe we could create an article about the Hispanic defender; and native born defenders. All of these defenders have their unique story; and have changed Texas History. --Andrewcool (talk) 18:35, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
Are there any reliable sources that differentiate in that way? If not, we would be creating a content fork that is potentially not of neutral POV. In the books I've read, the defenders are spoken of as a group. Dying in a battle - no matter which battle - is not generally enough to meet the notability guideline; if it was, there could be millions of articles, one for every casualty of every war. Collectively, the Alamo defenders are notable, and multiple books have been written about the group. A few of the Alamo defenders do meet notability guidelines individually, because they have been the subject of significant coverage in independent reliable sources. For most of these defenders, very little is known of their lives other than their service at the Alamo, and potentially their birthplace. That is not enough to justify a full article, when that information can be covered here. Karanacs (talk) 18:44, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Removed excessive material about one participant[edit]

I removed the following text:

Robert E. Cochran, Alamo defender, was born in Pembroke, New Hampshire in 1810. He probably lived in Boston and then in New Orleans before immigrating to Texas in 1835. For a time he conducted business with Ammon Underwood. Cochran took part in the siege of Bexar and later served in the Alamo garrison as a member of Capt. William R. Carey's artillery company. He died in the battle of the Alamo on March 6, 1836. Cochran County is named in his honor. His father was Samuel Martin Cochran and his mother was Sally "Folsom" Cochran. As per the 1810 census, which shows Samuel and Robert in the township of Enfied, Grafton County, NH. Parents: Samuel Martin Cochran (1775 - 1860) Sally Folsom Cochran (1784 - 1867) Robert E. Cochran was a true hero of The Republic Of Texas. His act of bravery and heroism will be remembered forever, as his legacy, a "Defender Of The Alamo" in March 1836. We all pay tribute to his sacrifice and to all the other hero's of the Alamo. As a Cochran family genealogist, I've traced our family lineage connection to the year 1580 to two Cochran brothers, James and John. I'm a member of The Son's Of The Republic of Texas and my qualifying ancestor's Col Samuel S. Lewis,Joseph Sidney Cochran and Martin Baty Cochran. Robert E. Cochran shares many of our Cochran ancestor's back to Waldenus De Cochrane in 1240 Scotland.

by Terry Lee Cochran

The reason is simple: This is information that belongs, if sourced, to a separate article about the person. It distorts the table format of this article. Hopefully the author will discover the text and do something more appropriate. --Alvestrand (talk) 21:53, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Andrew Kent[edit]

One of the "Immortal 32" that fought in the Alamo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 01:23, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

James Gwynne / Joseph Gwinn[edit]

I rolled back the addition of some text to the table:

(disputed: Promissary Note signed J. Gwin, believed to be Jos. Gwin (born 1897,KY), husband of Rebecca Mobley, shown on 1830 Lawrence Co., MS census, not James C. Gwynne)]

First reason is that I don't think qualifies as a reliable source by itself, and besides, it requires a login, so I can't get in to verify where it is sourcing its information from; secondly, it seems likely that Groenemann states that his name is James Gwynne, so we don't have a preponderance of sources in one way or the other. Thirdly, the edit broke formatting. I'm adding the pointer in what I think is a more wikipedia-like fashion. As usual, feel free to edit. --Alvestrand (talk) 18:54, 10 February 2012 (UTC)