Talk:List of Alien, Predator and Alien vs. Predator games

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List article purpose[edit]

I've started this list in order to merge numerous stub-class articles on Alien and Predator video games into a single list article. This article will be based on the structure of List of Castlevania titles. The list is under construction and currently only consists of the lead paragraphs, but I will be working on it over the next few days so please consider that before placing any tags on it. Thank you. --IllaZilla (talk) 07:39, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree on merging all the games except Aliens versus Predator (video game), Aliens versus Predator 2, Aliens versus Predator 2: Primal Hunt, Predator: Concrete Jungle, and Aliens versus Predator: Extinction. I think these games have enough information for a separate article. The rest are stubs, so merge. Also when you merge could also merge information about the gameplay and other stuff, like how Batman computer and video games is done. Gman124 talk 19:36, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
The problem is that those articles don't contain any sourced commentary. They're simply long, overly detailed plot summaries and collections of screenshots. WP:V requires articles to cite reliable third-party sources to establish notability of the subject. Since they don't, I recommended merging. If at some future point someone wants to split them off into a proper article with references, that'd be fine, but most of them haven't had any significant activity in so long that it appears no one is interested in building them up at this time, so merging seems like the best cleanup effort. The Batman list is OK, and it seems it's serving a similar purpose to this list, but it uses a lot of non-free images which isn't normally permitted in list articles. I do plan on having some details about the gameplay, as you can see from the games which are currently listed in this article. There are as many details as the sources provide, but no plot summaries. --IllaZilla (talk) 20:14, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
question: Now when the artcles are merged, should their talk pages be linked from here like how I did for the two pages I put in archive? I just thought since the redirects link here, the redirects that has some talk should be treated like archives of this page. Gman124 talk 03:48, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
Seems like a good idea to me. I don't know if there's a standard procedure for this. I see no problem in cases where the talk page didn't have anything in it (ie. just wikiproject banners or whatever, no actual discussion). For cases where there is some content on the talk page, I think your solution works fine. I might tweak it a bit as the list article develops, but I think it's a good idea. --IllaZilla (talk) 05:12, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
Commnet Shouldn't attempts be made to improve the articles first? I must admit that is what I thought a project was for - identifying articles that needed work and bringing the full attention of knowledgeable folks to bear on them. Looking through them few have even been tagged with requests for sources, notability, etc. I would have thought a to do list (as there is on the [Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Comics Comic Project talk page]) which would let people know what is in need of further work. This kind of merge should be a last resort.
Equally there are ongoing merges already up for some of these like Predator (video game) - you have to resolve one merge before throwing in more - if the decision was to merge into that article you'd need to give it time to settle down before even thinking about merging it again into something else.
So basically keep until efforts have been made to improve what is there. Then look into merging in smaller chunks - the sheer number of articles proposed is daunting and means a considered and nuanced approach is difficult. (Emperor (talk) 17:55, 18 May 2008 (UTC))
Most of the articles in question have been tagged as stubs by various projects (video games project mostly) for a long time (a year, 18 months, or more in many cases) and yet no improvements have been made to them. Many have been tagged as unreferenced for just as long. The majority of them are nothing but plot summaries and galleries of copyrighted screenshots. It's highly doubtful that any of them could be expanded with encyclopedic content and third-party critical sources. However, the details about their release history, specifications, etc. can be nicely merged into this article. I proposed the merging of these articles here in March. Given the lack of activity on most of these articles despite the tags, I see little reason not to merge them into a suitable list article. For example, the last subsantial edit to Predator (video game) (ie. not a minor edit or adding of a tag) was over a year ago. --IllaZilla (talk) 19:09, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
This merging has caused a mess of redirects, links leading back on themselves, disambig pages linking to disambig pages leading to a giant disambig page. These (and many more) need cleaning up and I'm not too sure where anything is supposed to lead. -- Prod (Talk) 02:26, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
I should probably devote some attention to this article and the resulting redirects, etc. I was pretty gung-ho about it when I started the thing but properly referencing each entry got pretty complex pretty fast and I kind of lost interest. Right now I'm working on another large Alien-related project. Once that's done I plan to dive back into this list and mop up all these merges & redirects. Of course, if anyone else wants to put some time into that they're more than welcome. --IllaZilla (talk) 02:37, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Keep They're all individual games, I see no reason to clump them together. If you're tired of stubs, provide more information. Provide instead of kill. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.113.60.50 (talk) 08:08, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
This isn't a vote, it's a discussion. For 85% of the stub articles there don't appear to be any secondary source materials available from which to draw information in order to expand the articles. Per WP:V, if few or no secondary sources exist for a topic, we shouldn't have an independent article for that topic. --IllaZilla (talk) 22:28, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

←A little late here, but perhaps locating sources for individual articles should take precedence, as opposed to merging them all into a single, convoluted list. The linking issues caused by mass merging of articles like this are far more detrimental to Wikipedia's organisation than cite tags where necessary on unsourced articles. The Cake is a Lie T / C 13:27, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Most of the stub articles have been marked with various maintenance tags for a long time, some over 2 years. I'm inclined at this point to believe that either A) sufficient secondary sources don't exist, or B) nobody has access to them or is interested in looking for them. Merging them here wouldn't eliminate the possibility of future expansion (as the individual articles would merely be redirected to the list, the redirects can always be undone if someone wishes to expand the game article). There would be an entry for the game here in the list article regardless, and if an indpedent article exists then it'll link to it. This has already happened with Aliens vs. Predator: Requiem (video game)—an editor was able to find lots of sources & expand it from a stub to B class. That is absolutely encouraged, and anyone is welcome to do so for any of these individual game articles. But until someone with such interest & sources comes along it makes sense to merge the various stubs into a list article & redirect the stubs. --IllaZilla (talk) 18:43, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
Well... ah... You certainly seem interested in these articles :) The Cake is a Lie T / C 01:16, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
Well, I'm interested in the Alien/Predator franchises as a whole, but my knowledge is mostly restricted to the films so I focus on those articles (I rewrote Alien (film) top-to-bottom). I've never played any of these games and I don't have any sources on-hand that would help expand any of these articles. Like, I've got nothing that would be of any use to Aliens: A Comic Book Adventure. However, I did create WP:ALIEN in large part because there were so many unref'd, poorly-written stub articles lingering around, and it seemed like somebody ought to take the impetus to do something about 'em. Before I did a cleanup sweep and marked these all for merger, 7/10 of them were nothing but an infobox, 2 sentences of unref'd commentary, and a gallery of non-free screenshots. Bleh. --IllaZilla (talk) 03:14, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
Okay. I just thought I'd add my perspective as a casual observer who visited the article. I'm not particularly involved, so I'm always happy to go with the opinions of those who have more input and contribution to the subject and article. By the way, I had to fight through the bureaucratic process for approval for this username :) The Cake is a Lie T / C 10:45, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Mergers/redirects done[edit]

OK, after procrastinating on it for over a year I finally went ahead with all of the proposed merges, etc. I've got a few more cancelled titles to add, but here's where things stand now:

  1. Every game has an entry in the list article.
    • This would have been the end result regardless of whether any of the stand-alone articles remained or not.
  2. All of the stub articles are now redirects to the list article.
    • This is where I expect to get the most heat. Bottom line was that these stubs were dormant for over a year (some for over 2 years), so merger into a larger article seemed pertinent.
    • However, the old articles aren't deleted, and I don't plan on nominating them for that. They've simply been turned into redirects. If anyone feels like improving them with secondary sources in order to pass WP:N & WP:V, by all means do so. The redirects can easily be undone so you'll have the old versions to work off of. The old article titles can be found using the "what links here" feature; you'll see all the articles that redirect here.
    • Please don't undo one of the redirects unless you're going to add citations to secondary sources, otherwise it'll probably just be redirected again. Building up "Development" and "Reception" sections using third-party sources is almost always the best way to go & will show that the game is notable.
  3. Any articles that had secondary sources are still there, and they are linked to from their entries in the list article.
    • If you do improve & recreate one of the redirected articles, make sure to link to it from its entry in the list article.

Comments/suggestions are welcome, but please don't rant. Contrary to how it might seem, I have no objection to any of the old articles being recreated as long as they're improved in the process. The end goal, after all, is to have all of the articles get to FA. --IllaZilla (talk) 08:37, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm recreating the Aliens: A Comic Book Adventure article as separate; besides having had an impact on the Alien Franchise's progression, its release was also done without consent of the copyright holder, making it something of a limited edition game. Worthy of its own mention, I should think? 70.71.19.155 (talk)
It still lacks any reliable sources to verify its contents or to show notability. Your recreation addresses none of these issues. Re-redirected. --IllaZilla (talk) 07:56, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Aliens vs Predators 3 PC Version[edit]

The "article" for AvP3 lists it for being PS3 and Xbox 360 only, I'd like to also mention it's also going to be available for PC too according to the developers site: http://www.rebellion.co.uk/ I think I also saw it in a magazine too. I'd edit it in but I have no experience with wikipedia so I thought I'd point it out and let someone else do it —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.201.4.107 (talk) 19:49, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Alien Vs. Predator: Last Of His Clan[edit]

Isn't that game for the Game Boy instead of the Super NES? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.233.107.169 (talk) 19:57, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

You're absolutely right. Fixed. --IllaZilla (talk) 01:56, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Alien board game and role-playing game[edit]

Probably at least 15 years ago there was an Alien board game released (no miniatures, stand-up cardboard figures). It was AFAIK released from the same company that released the Alien role-playing game (pen and paper). Both games are not in this list. You will ned to do some research (maybe ask the guy running www.tabletopgamingnews.com or on www.boardgamegeek.com for the boardgame, and on a role-playing game site for the role-playing game). --84.60.73.65 (talk) 20:02, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

It would be handy if there were a site like Gamespot, but for tabletop games. Maybe there is and I just don't know about it. Such a thing would be very handy for looking up different Alien board game titles. --IllaZilla (talk) 22:33, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
btw, I think the games were both by company Leading Edge, but I'm not sure. --84.60.29.62 (talk) 22:07, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
If you are looking for a source for the Aliens tabletop game, it is available at boardgamegeek.com so feel free to re-add this to the wiki page if you like. http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1770/aliens Jypsy27 (talk) 09:23, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Alien vs. Predator (arcade game)[edit]

As a favourite game of mine, I'd be interested to provide a full article on the arcade Aliens vs. Predator game from 1994. As I'm probably lacking other sources, aside from my experiences with arcade beat'em-ups (thus this article would probably end up heavily focused on gameplay and comparison to other beat'em-ups), I'd appreciate some more-than-general links on creating such an article to stand up to Wiki standards. I'll be happy for any help here. Regards, Zicher (20 Aug 2010) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.108.154.1 (talk) 19:54, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

There used to be such an article at Alien vs. Predator (arcade game), but it was redirected here because it did not have any secondary sources to establish notability. If you'd like to recreate the article and expand on it with real-world information from reliable sources, that would certainly be welcome. I recommend reading the following pages first:
If you feel you've found sufficient source material from which to to write a well-rounded article, I'd be happy to show you how to recover an old revision of the previous article and work from there. --IllaZilla (talk) 22:49, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
Hello IllaZilla, thanks for your information. It was very helpful to give me the "encyclopedic feeling" not to blow myself on the first occasion :).
Regarding the notability issue - what sources, aside from paper-printed articles (which I probably don't have access to), are considered "reliable"? IGN, GameSpot, GameFAQs? CapCom webpage for this game, if such exists? At GameFAQs, the game currently presents 14 reviews, which is quite a large number for any arcade game presented there - not many beat-'em-ups surpass this number. Along with this, the reviewer rating is 9.0, while the user rating is 8.7. For me, this confirms that this game was really notable.
Also, this game is one of the most played on the MAME competition sites, especially in CZ, where I come from and where this game was seen quite frequently during the "arcade golden age" here. I'm pretty sure this doesn't stand for notability worldwide - perhaps a Czech language article may be due first?
Thanks for your help. Zicher —Preceding unsigned comment added by ZicherCZ (talkcontribs) 16:54, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
Gamespot can be a good jumping-off point for finding sources. The key is that you'll need sources that do more than just establish the details of the game (release date, specifications, etc.); you need sources that actually discuss the game: things like development, creation, gameplay, sales, critical reaction, significance, etc. I don't believe GameFAQs is useable as a source, since all its content is user-contributed (anyone can write a review there, just as anyone can write a walkthrough). Reviews are a really good place to start when it comes to sources, since they show that the game has received critical attention, but they need to be professional reviews; user ratings and user reviews like those you might fing on GameFAQs don't count. I believe, thought, that some sites like Gamespot have a paid or volunteer staff that does reviews; these would certainly be useable. And often sites like these will link to other review sources and the like, so they're good jumping-off points.
To be honest I'm not sure where the best places are to look for info/commentary on older games like this. When it comes to games from the early '90s & earlier (pre-popularization of the internet), most of your best source material is likely to be found in print. If you've got access to a good library, you might find coverage in video game magazine of the period, either on microfilm or in digital archives (I used to be a Nintendo Power subscriber, but I'm not very knowledgeable about other gaming magazines from that period). If you'd like, I can move the old version of the article into a user subpage for you at User:ZicherCZ/Alien vs. Predator (arcade game) and you can work on it there at your leisure, then ask for help or a peer review if you get stuck or feel you've done all you can. --IllaZilla (talk) 17:17, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
Moving the article to my user space may prove very helpful to me, both for this particular article and for future ones. ZicherCZ (talk) 17:34, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
Yes check.svg Done You can find it at User:ZicherCZ/Alien vs. Predator (arcade game). This way the edit history of the previous contributors will be preserved. Feel free to post here or on my talk page when you've finished or if you get stuck, & I'll see if I can help or suggest the next step. If you have difficulty finding sources you might want to ask for help from WikiProject Video games; they have a reference library which could be useful as well. --IllaZilla (talk) 19:06, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

You're welcome. --194.145.185.229 (talk) 17:45, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

...but I'm not sure how properly add the link to this article. --194.145.185.229 (talk) 12:58, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Why are Alien and Predator games combined in the same article?[edit]

I would have thought there'd be seperate articles for games related to each particular series and the crossovers occuring in both where they happen to. 2.96.64.24 (talk) 12:09, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Because there's so much overlap between the two franchises thanks to the Alien vs. Predator imprint. Alien vs. Predator games have been coming out since 1993, and there have only been 6 games based just on the Predator franchise, so it makes sense to combine them into a single list. The two franchises have been intertwined for over 20 years in various media, so they're somewhat inseparable. --IllaZilla (talk) 16:34, 30 March 2012 (UTC)