Talk:List of Irish clans

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This page[edit]

I think this page is sorta getting out of hand and definately needs sources and streamlined - its a mess to read and sift for information through. I think the clans should be split into different tables say by province or something? Mabuska (talk) 12:15, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

How about getting rid of the Anglicised surnames and the countless spelling variations. Just stick with the Irish form. That'll cut down on space, and make things easier to read. The lineages in the progenitor column are getting out of hand too. It's just not something that fits well in a table.--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 07:15, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
The Anglicised surname section is integral to the article as how are non-Gaelic speaking people going to know how on earth the surname is pronounced or sounds like or link an Anglicised Gaelic name to the proper Gaelic form?
What about seperating each clan into its section with a mini-table with the main septs listed as seperate rows or something? I'll work on a concept and post it in this talk page for discussion.
I still think maybe seperating the article into 4 different articles, each focusing on clans from a specific province would help cut down on the length of it and make it more specific. Mabuska (talk) 13:45, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
I understand your point on the names, I just think we are fighting a losing battle with variations of surnames. There are countless variations Anglicised-Irish surnames, and sometimes the same Anglicised forms are used for multiple Gaelic names. Why are MacSWEENEY, MacSWYN, SWAIN, SWINE given for Mac Suibhne, and not the common Sweeney. Hopeless, I think. IPs will be adding Swiney, Swan, Sween, MacSween, MacSwan, McQueeney, MacQueenie. And on, and on. A way to make it fair, and not to favour a particular Anglicised form, is to stick with the Irish. Separate sections sounds like a good plan. You'd better show your sources, and give the IPs something to follow on. I'd like to help, but I don't have any books covering the relationships between Irish families.--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 04:15, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
I'll be most able to help with Ulster clans as i have a book on Ulster surnames which gives good information on them though not always on the relationships between them. I think in regards to the Anglicised forms, maybe the most common Anglicised versions should be used? Like as you say for Mac Suibhne, maybe just list Sweeney as it probably be the most common form. Maybe i could use the book i have as a guideline on what Anglicised forms are most common and should be listed for Ulster anyways. The Progenitor section is also a bit mad with those geneologies.
To stop IPs flooding the page with information, i think we should make it clear that every new entry has a verifiable and credible source before its added. Mabuska (talk) 10:41, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
Hi folks. I started the page and I believe am the only contributor (I often contribute without signing in). It is a large article and the format is unwieldy. I have already deleted one section (Blazons, War cries, Arms etc.). Perhaps four separate pages (for the various provinces) would be more effective, although separate pages by kindred groups might be better. It is a large article, but then there are hundreds of Irish clans (at least approximately 200 main clans). Nothing we can do about that, if a comprehensive list is desirable. The second issue is with variable spellings for individual surnames. Here I think there is no compromise. Yes, most surnames have variable English spellings and sometimes are transliterated also. There is a tendency towards unique surnames' extinction, i.e. people are encouraged by local bureaucrats to adopt the commonest most similar surname and therefore unique local surnames become rarer. Allied to this is the trend to drop O' and Mc/Mac. Surnames that appear very similar are often quite distinct i.e. MacALINION (Mac Giolla Finnéin), now usually "Leonard", a Donegal surnames versus MacALINDON (Mac Gilla Fhiondain), an Armagh name. Many seemingly English-sounding names, even those held by Protestants (actually, usually those held by Protestants) are often of Gaelic origin. Take Ryder, Rider: it is both Ó Marcachain (MARKHAM), an Ui Fhiachrach Aidhne sept in south Galway and Ó Marcaigh (MARKEY) a Fearnmhaigh sept of Louth. Examples of this are legion: "Grimes" (Ó Gairmledhaigh, Ó Greacháín or Ó Cuindlis); "Whitehead" (Ó Ceandubhain); "English", "Ingoldsby" (Mac an Galloglaigh);"PEYTON", "PATTON" (Ó Petain), Donegal and many others. It's very, very important that these extraneous and rare variants are accounted for and would move that the integrity of the entire article hinges upon their inclusion. No exaggeration. Some outside expert advice would be welcome too, though. Martan32 (talk) 12:11, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
There are a couple of IP's who keep adding in information over the months which i think is making things worse as its left unsourced by them Mabuska (talk) 00:39, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
Out of curiosity what are the other sources are being used for this article? For some of them i can find no correlation anywhere on the internet between clans and septs alleged to belong to them. Examples including most names associated with Clan Dalagh and Clan Drugain. This article i think might even qualify for deletion its that bad. Mabuska (talk) 11:34, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

I do not know how to make a correction but there are TWO O'Breslin septs in Donegal. One is the O'Breslin of the Cinel Enda and the other is the O'Breslin of Fanad. The O'Breslin-Fanad are decended from Congal Cennmigher mac Fergus Fanad's son Coining. Coining killed in 732 in battle as noted in the annals. Most Breslins in Donegal today are O'Breslins-Enda and most Breslins outside today are O'Breslins-Fanad. The O'Breslin-Fanad should be entered in the Cenel Aedha. Please make these corections. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.207.97.240 (talk) 06:58, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I wouldn't worry about this excuse of an article. Comment over at the List of Irish clans in Ulster article, i have a section of O'Breslin-Fanad there, which i dunno if it satisfies the difference between the two, but any extra info helps. :-) Mabuska (talk) 10:51, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Removal of Ulster clans?[edit]

As i have started an article dealing specifially with Ulster clans, should the mess of copy and paste Ulster clans on this article be removed seeing as i have a more sourced and researched version up: List of Irish clans in Ulster?? Mabuska (talk) 11:34, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

References?[edit]

This whole page is absent of references and has the appearance of original research. This means that it can be deleted at any time. Whomever went to the trouble of compiling this list should indicate the source of this information or I feel it will be deleted in time. Liz Read! Talk! 15:43, 19 September 2013 (UTC)