Talk:List of National Historic Sites of Canada in British Columbia

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WikiProject Historic sites (Rated List-class, Low-importance)
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Conversion of lists[edit]

The separation of List of National Historic Sites of Canada into separate lists for each province and territory is to allow for the eventual conversion of all the lists into table format (as has been done at List of National Historic Sites of Canada in Alberta, List of National Historic Sites of Canada in France and List of National Historic Sites of Canada in Ontario). Please see the talk page at List of National Historic Sites of Canada for more details. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 18:21, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Howse Pass[edit]

Howse Pass was not originally included in the list of NHSCs in B.C., but was added at some point by another editor on the logical basis that the pass itself extends across the BC/Alberta inter-provincial border and falls within both provinces. Grapher78 recently deleted the entry on a good faith basis, with the explanation that "the official designation of Howse Pass pertains strictly to Banff National Park in Alberta". I reverted the deletion simply to allow a discussion to occur here. If the entry is to be deleted, we should have some consensus, so that there are no arguments later on if someone else then tries to reinsert this entry.

My understanding is that Parks Canada lists Howse Pass among the NHSCs in Alberta and provides the address as "Banff National Park of Canada, Alberta". However, I am not sure if that is determinative of this issue, or merely an administrative convenience for Parks Canada. On the Directory of Federal Heritage Designations, the "Description of Historic Place" for Howse Pass goes into some detail as to how the pass itself is in BC and Alberta, but as for the official designation it states: "Official recognition refers to the geographically definable location circumscribed by selected natural features and watercourses." Given the previous description in that section, I would have thought that this sentence means that the official recognition applies to land in both provinces, but admittedly the sentence is clear as mud. Grapher78, do you have additional information? --Skeezix1000 (talk) 22:32, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

I was only going on the Directory of Federal Heritage Designations. Geographically the pass does fall on both sides of the provincial border, but administratively (and for reasons unknown to me) the designation has been granted to Alberta. Of the 4 cross border passes that have been designated National Historic Sites of Canada, 3 of the designations have been granted to Alberta (Howse Pass, Athabasca Pass, and Yellowhead Pass), and 1 has been granted to BC (Kicking Horse Pass).
I guess the decision that needs to be made is; does the community want these lists to mirror the DFHD or the geographical reality of these National Historic Sites falling on both sides of the border. Either choice is correct. (Grapher78 (talk) 23:59, 24 July 2012 (UTC))
From a strictly policy-based viewpoint, WP:V would ask us to reflect the source, which would give us AB only. But from both a common sense and practical usage viewpoint (a reader would want to know all the Sites in the area he/she was looking up) we should include in both. I'd support the latter. The Interior (Talk) 00:11, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
The designation is the designation. If the designation is only in Alberta, then it should only be included in the Alberta list (although, in such a case, we should include a detailed link/description here in the "See also" section, or maybe even create a separate section for border passes given the unique situation). Similarly, it should be in both lists if the designated area is in both provinces.

However, I am confused why you both seem to be jumping to the conclusion that the designated area is strictly in Alberta. Maybe I am missing something here. What is determinative is what was designated by the Minister, not how Parks Canada has catalogued it on its website or treats it administratively. Given the full description on the DFHD, I cannot tell if the reference to Alberta in the address is a reflection of the official designated area, or merely an administrative convenience (or maybe even simply a reflection of where the plaque ended up being installed). As I said above, it comes down to what the sentence "Official recognition refers to the geographically definable location circumscribed by selected natural features and watercourses" means. We may have to ask Parks Canada.

I am perhaps overthinking this. But it just seems extremely odd that four cross-border mountain passes would be designated at the federal level as being in only one province. So the feds just designated up to the provincial boundary? And the other half of the pass is simply not recognized? Maybe the Minister did simply "assign" these NHSCs to one province or the other, although doing so would seem unnecessary given the federal nature of the designation. Given the circumstances, and the fact that the information on the DFHD is conflicting at best, I am reluctant to jump to conclusions. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 13:04, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

It seems like a purely bureaucratic issue, and it seems to me that a pass on the continental divide would belong to both jurisdictions. Maybe I wasn't clear in my comment, I support including the passes in both list articles, but your "see also" solution works also. As you say, this is a federal designation of a cross-border geographical feature. The Interior (Talk) 14:50, 25 July 2012 (UTC)