Talk:List of One Piece characters

Mugiwara Pirate's independent pages

Note: This discussion is only about Usopp, Sanji, Robin, Chopper, Franky and Brook. That Luffy, Nami and Zoro should be covered in separate articles has already been decided. Goodraise 13:08, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Each Strawhat Pirate should have its page.--ToonsFan (talk) 10:39, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Straw Poll

Note: Content decisions on Wikipedia are not reached by counting votes. Unreasoned comments/votes will have no bearing on the outcome of this discussion. Goodraise 14:23, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose. Spinning out sections containing little or no content of independent origin would not be in the encyclopedia's best interest. It would only serve to spread the plot creep. Goodraise 12:04, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

• Weak Oppose - Nami and Zoro are the only ones that should be made into seperate articles, the other members don't have enough reception yet to be independent. - SuperTiencha (talk) 06:06, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

• Support - I think every member should have their page, or if not, only Zoro, Nami and Usopp. But each member has its history, habilities, and miscellaneous. So every Straw Hat Pirate should have your page--HeinzDoofenshmirtz (talk) 12:10, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

• Support - I agree, each crew member should have its own page. I agree with the user HeinzDoofenshmirtz.--Quasmodo03 (talk) 18:02, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

• Support - Each Straw Hat Pirate should have its own page. Unlike the other characters in the series, the crew has more history, powers and abilities, and their own dreams.--BertSampson (talk) 11:36, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Response to the three preceding comments: There's a place for articles like that. Here on Wikipedia, our demands are a little bit higher. Our articles need to be more than plot regurgitation. That's policy and to get around that it will take a whole lot more than a few votes of support, because Wikipedia is not a democracy. Anyone really interested in making separate articles for these characters happen will stop wasting everyone's time in pointless discussions here and start looking for independent sources discussing those characters. Goodraise 14:06, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Support. If primary characters in other series, like Naruto, can have their own pages, I see no reason why the primary characters for this series should be any different. If sources/citations are a problem, couldn't you just use the ones currently used for the current character list, but just including more info? Heck froze over (talk) 21:51, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

It ends up being only a half step, to go from having a page for the main, main character in the series, to having only some of the main characters with pages, as opposed to having all the main charcters with their own pages. I don't think Zolo/Zoro and Nami really stand out from the rest of the crew except that they signed on a little earlier. Heck froze over (talk) 21:53, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

First of all, if "X exists, so Y should be allowed to exist too" was a valid argument, nothing would be removed from Wikipedia, ever. As for the difference between Luffy, Nami, Zoro and the rest of the characters, the key word here is "independent". Separate articles need independent sources. Not just any sources will do. They have to be independent. (See WP:V and WP:GNG for why they are required and Wikipedia:Independent sources for what they are.) Goodraise 00:27, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

I know the sources would have to be independent, but wouldn't it make sense to just use the sources for this page, but just include more information about each character than on this one? Heck froze over (talk) 19:28, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. You are not expressing yourself too clearly. It would be great if there was more information in the independent sources on this page about the other main characters. Then we could use the sources to write adequate articles about those characters. Unfortunately, it's much easier suggesting things like that than actually doing them. Be my guest and try it. Goodraise 22:14, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be easier to just make stub articles first for each of the remaining 6 crew members, because then there's a more obvious place to discuss material, and no-one has to collect enough info at any one time to make a good article. Maybe start with the sources for this article but not pare down the information initially? Heck froze over (talk) 20:09, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Wouldn't what be easier? None of the people who come here every other month to complain about the lack of individual character pages have the slightest interest in writing articles that measure up to even Wikipedia's lowest quality standards. We don't need a place to discuss material we don't have. In fact, the necessary sources for such articles accumulated in the sections for Nami and Zoro on this page just fine. Goodraise 06:52, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

How about just creating character pages when there is enough info to make a decent article? ("decent" and "enough" would need to be defined. Also, was it ever decided what version of the character's names would be used? The discussion above didn't seem to have concluded yet. Heck froze over (talk) 22:02, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

We don't need to define it. That has already been done. For the third time, here it is: WP:GNG. Please, read it already. As for the names, no, we (as a group) apparently haven't made up our minds about that yet. Goodraise 02:56, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose for now. Agree with the concerns by SuperTiencha and Goodraise, we need to find sources containing more independent origin and will only serve as a plot creep. Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 16:48, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

• Support I think that they are known and there is enough information about them Akai Goth (talk) 19:10, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

We have been having this kind of discussion every few month for years. There is always someone who is absolutely certain that the information is out there. Curiously, none of that information ever shows up here. Goodraise 22:14, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Further discussion

I have made a big mistake and I apologize. I should have known better. By preceding my initial response to the proposal with a bolded summary of my position (see my comment from 12:04, 30 October 2011 (UTC)), I derailed this discussion. I suppose I got into the habit after the straw poll a few sections up turned out to be such a productive tool for reaching consensus regarding all those supporting characters. However, content decisions on Wikipedia are not reached by counting votes. Editors can cast votes on this page as much as they like, but it won't decide the outcome of this discussion, because that's what we are having here, a discussion. (See WP:NOTDEMOCRACY.) I hope I'll be able to fix my mistake by adding section headers and notes. Anyway, what will decide the outcome of this discussion is the quality of arguments brought forward. So, if anyone has valid arguments for creating pages for each Straw Hat, here (right below this comment) is the place. Thus far, I've heard none. Goodraise 14:23, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Porposing some conventions

I think this article would benefit if we decided on a few conventions to follow. Feel free to attach your own proposals to this thread. Goodraise 20:03, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Whatever you guys end up using for the naming conventions, use that one primarily and mention other variations of that name from other versions of the series. Heck froze over (talk) 21:59, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Voice actors only for characters with sections of their own

I suggest we provide voice actor information only for characters with a section of their own. If we try to give that information for all characters currently mentioned, we'll end up doubling the page size. We have to draw the line somewhere. Goodraise 20:03, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Agree with that. If not section will focus more on voice actors rather than characters groups.Tintor2 (talk) 17:55, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

I also support this convention. Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 19:11, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Agree.∞陣内Jinnai 21:59, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Devil Fruit names not for all characters

I suggest we limit providing the names of Devil Fruits a character has eaten to characters who don't necessarily have a section of their own, but are discussed in several sentences. It seems rather silly to me when more words are spent listing all the names of a character and his or her Devil Fruit in the various versions than on the character him- or herself. Goodraise 20:03, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Agree also there. It depends on the in-universe importance of the Devil Fruit.Tintor2 (talk) 17:55, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

I also agree with the convention. It all depends on the in-universe importance of the Devil Fruits. Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 19:11, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Agree.∞陣内Jinnai 21:59, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Gold Roger vs. Gol D. Roger

I think he should be referred to as Gold Roger. If there was a whole article about him, it would be located at Gold Roger per WP:COMMONNAME. It's enough to note his "real" name in the first sentence of his section. Goodraise 20:03, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

If I remember correctly, he was referred as Gol D. Roger few times in contrast to Gold Roger which is mentioned in some openings from the anime series.Tintor2 (talk) 17:55, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

I believe its best to wait here. I think the assertion that more sources use Gold Roger vs Gold. D. Roger could be similar to Zolo/Zoro case where it may be a matter of which media is reviewed and more recent ones use different names. There's no need to rush with this.∞陣内Jinnai 21:59, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Merge Skypiea and Angel Island

Both Angel Island and Skypiea have small sections and its not very necessary to have them seperated. The information from both sections should be put together as one since Angel Island alone isn't significant enough to be its own section. - SuperTiencha (talk) 03:37, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

• Support per SuperTiencha's reasoning. Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 03:40, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

section for Water 7

There should be a Water 7 section on this list mentioning all of the major characters that were in the Water 7 and Enies Lobby arc. Iceburg, Kokoro, the Galley-La workers and the Frankey Brothers were all characters that were present during that whole major story arc of the series which lasted for around 100 episodes. We already have a section for Alabasta and Skypiea residents and those arcs were not as long. - SuperTiencha (talk) 00:19, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

• Support per SuperTiencha's reasoning. Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 01:17, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Buggy Indipendent Article

I've noticed a significant amount of reception for the character. If I can bring enough references, would anyone be opposed to the character receiving his own article? Redbird 41 (talk) 17:45, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

I will Support this idea if more reception is added. I definitely see Buggy as the most notable character outside of the Strawhats because of his few appearances in other media. - SuperTiencha (talk) 00:26, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

There's always going to be someone opposed to everything. What matters is the GNG. If you can find enough reception to satisfy it (one big paragraph or two small ones, written from several sources), then an article for him (or any other character) is warranted. Goodraise 00:47, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

So far I've found four references. How many should I get? Redbird 41 (talk) 00:49, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

The GNG is kept intentionally ambiguous. It depends on how much reception you can get out of those sources and on the caliber of the sources. A paragraph in an article of The New York Times is better than a sentence in some guy's blog. That's why I can't give you a number without knowing what kind of sources you've found. With deep coverage in totally independent and perfectly reliable sources, two of them would be enough. The less so your sources are, the more of them you'll need to satisfy the GNG in practice. Goodraise 01:14, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:STFX1046190/sandbox Redbird 41 (talk) 04:53, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Well, it's not exactly much, but it may be enough. Add it to Buggy's section with citations (if you can using {{cite web}}, but URLs at least) and then we can start talking about a separate article for him. Goodraise 23:46, 18 February 2012 (UTC)