Talk:List of Pennsylvania state historical markers

Pennsylvania Low‑importance

	Pennsylvania portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pennsylvania, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Pennsylvania on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PennsylvaniaWikipedia:WikiProject PennsylvaniaTemplate:WikiProject PennsylvaniaPennsylvania articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Historic sites Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Historic sites, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of historic sites on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Historic sitesWikipedia:WikiProject Historic sitesTemplate:WikiProject Historic sitesHistoric sites articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Lists

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Lists, an attempt to structure and organize all list pages on Wikipedia. If you wish to help, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.ListsWikipedia:WikiProject ListsTemplate:WikiProject ListsList articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Pennsylvania, not Pittsburgh[edit]

"Pittsburgh Historical and Landmarks Commission" in the references should be "Pennsylvania" but I don't know how to fix it. --DThomsen8 (talk) 11:12, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed, thanks for the heads up! CrazyPaco (talk) 17:12, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Photos and links in these PA marker lists[edit]

The PA state markers are often different than the NRHP designations or other local designations (e.g. Pittsburgh Landmarks) in that they often refer to people, places, events, etc., not just structures. The physical evidence of these historic events are often long gone leaving nothing but empty fields or unrelated new structures.

The PA plaques and their text are copyrighted so using images whose primary subject is a plaque is a copyright violation and is not appropriate for Wikipedia in list-type of article such as these (see WP:NFLISTS). The PA historical plaques can be included in a picture (as an extraneous part like this photo here), but the cannot be the main subject of the photo (like here...this photo is likely a © violation, tagged wrong & shouldn't be at Commons). The plaques fall under the same category as sculptures (see Freedom of panorama#United_States and Template:Non-free 3D art). So please keep this in mind when you are adding photos to these tables.

For these reasons, some of the images in the table are likely to be contextual just like the markers themselves. Often a marker is about a person, not the person's birthplace or workplace in particular although it might be near such a location. Therefore, an image of a person or event is probably appropriate for use in the table. This is quite different than the NRHP lists that most editors are familiar with, but those lists are most for historic places and structures that have maintained their integrity, unlike the PA markers. For an example of how images can be used to populate a PA historical marker list, please see List of Pennsylvania state historical markers in Allegheny County.

Also, before Wiki-linking a marker title to an article, it is probably good check the marker context of the marker by reading its text after finding it at the Pennsylvania Historical and Museum Commission's database (here). Sometimes the topic of the marker is not obvious from the title. CrazyPaco (talk) 23:55, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'll add that I think a photo of the marker by itself would be a terrible way to illustrate a list or an article in most cases. But since there are no copyright notices on the markers, those posted before 1978 are in the public domain in the US. Smallbones (talk) 18:32, 5 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The markers are also trademarked. A lot of markers have been put up since 1978. I agree that a photo of a marker is hardly any illustration. However, a building owned by an individual (frequently a long deceased individual) leaves us with a choice of the building or the individual. The real question is what, if anything, goes in the table when the marker is on a public street with a park in the background, or just a modern building with a marker for a business that ended over a century ago.--DThomsen8 (talk) 19:51, 5 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That's true for the text, but doesn't account for the marker itself, which could be interpreted as a 3-D work of art, like a sculpture, as noted above (see Freedom of panorama#United_States and Template:Non-free 3D art) and the artist (the PHMC) may retain ownership of rights. CrazyPaco (talk) 03:23, 6 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've put a photo of a 1926 marker File:Minquas Path Rose Valley.JPG in the List of Pennsylvania state historical markers in Delaware County, twice actually since a new marker is right beside it. Please let me know if you think this one has any problems. I like the fancy nature of the old plaque and think that one or two here and there would make good illustrations. Smallbones (talk) 23:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I too like the look of that old marker. As far as ©, technically, it is possible it is under copyright since it came about after 1923. The artist of the plaque could retain rights for 70 years after their death, or 100 years from its creation. That said, prior to 1978, works of art such as statues or sculptures that were permanently installed in a public place were considered in general to be published, so I'm pretty sure it would fall under Template:PD-US-no notice (see Commons:Freedom of panorama#United States). I'm betting there was no notice on that plaque, and therefore I don't think there is any issue as it would fall into PD, but you may want add that PD-US-no notice tag to the file. That may apply for other PA markers as well, but it is probably best to avoid images whose subject is primarily the modern markers as the point is more muddled with PHMC claiming copyright over the design. CrazyPaco (talk) 00:15, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

All markers entered[edit]

All 2,300+ markers in 67 counties are now entered. As far as I know, the list is up-to-date with the PHMC database as of today. There will be new markers dedicated this year. A list of approved markers can be found here and a schedule of dedication ceremonies can be found here. CrazyPaco (talk) 04:02, 25 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

New PAhistoric infobox template[edit]

For anyone interested in creating or editing articles on Pennsylvania historic sites or landmarks, I have created a new Pennsylvania historic infobox modeled on the National Registry of Historic Places infobox. This infobox is intended for state or local historic sites and landmarks that are not listed on the national registry, but are designated as historic by Pennsylvania and/or regional or local authorities and organizations. Like the NRHP infobox, the PAhistoric infobox will place color-coded banners signifying the historical significance of the subject at the top of the infobox, can handle both local Pittsburgh designations that are already thoroughly covered in Wikipedia articles/lists, and also provides the ability for other fully-customizeable local designations. CrazyPaco (talk) 05:45, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination for deletion of Template:Infobox PAhistoric[edit]

Template:Infobox PAhistoric has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. CrazyPaco (talk) 15:30, 21 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]