Talk:List of female comics creators

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Untitled[edit]

I think it might make sense to merge the "list" into this article. Hopefully this article can grow and eventually give some narrative about the history and other issues of this subject. Sometimes it makes sense to keep the "article" and "list" on separate pages, especially when the list is very long. Right now however, there is a lot of overlap between the two, and the "article" is not yet strong enough to be split off. ike9898 00:51, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Possibly, but "women in comics" is currently limited in scope to the U.S. and the list contains women in Japan. One of those viewpoints will have to change to make it consistent. ColourBurst 07:44, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
Since the article does include Japanese-women comics creators, how does it not espouse a worldview? -- Tenebrae 19:30, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Also, the list article is just that, a list with no identifying information or source citation. I'll ID and source as many as I can; first step is to cull the duplicates, which, as there seems to be little activity on these articles over months, I'll do now. It can always be reverted in a moment if need be. --Tenebrae 14:18, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
  • There definitely should be a strong distinction between lists and articles. The two being discussed here shouldn't remain in their current form. Spylab 14:14, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Delete?[edit]

The category Women in comics‎ was recently split into Category:Women comics artists and Category:Women comics writers and deleted. Is there a reason for this list that isn't met by those 2 better named categories? -- Jeandré, 2007-09-19t19:19z

Just the main reason that most list pages still exist: To cover those list members who don't have wikipedia articles yet... Shadzane (talk) 00:07, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

G. B. Jones[edit]

I noticed that G. B. Jones was recently added to this page as a female comics artist. But her own Wikipedia page doesn't say anything at all about her being a comics artist. It talks about her art, but nowhere does it says she's ever done a comic story or strip. That doesn't mean she hasn't, but it seems like an odd omission... So, does G. B. Jones really belong on this list? Shadzane 07:02, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

GB Jones contributed to the comics anthology Juicy Mother, volume one (Celebration) and volume two (How They Met), edited by Jennifer Camper, if that makes a difference. The two publications are listed in the bibliography on her page. Intheshadows 05:20, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
Well, there it is. Thanks, and never mind me. (But it wouldn't hurt her own Wikipedia page to come out and says some of her art work has been comics...) Shadzane 01:26, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Recent name change[edit]

Now that the name of this page has been changed from "List of women in comics" to "List of women comics writers and artists," does that mean comic book editors, publishers and other executives (like Ray Herman, Karen Berger, Jenette Kahn, etc.) should be removed? Shadzane (talk) 01:00, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it does, which makes this new name needlessly limiting (and missing the industry-wide point). I missed the discussion, unfortunately. --Tenebrae (talk) 00:13, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
The problem's that the list isn't about women in comics (Wonder Woman) but writers and artists who create comics (Elizabeth Holloway Marston). In fact there's no real need for this list since the 2 categories above do it much better. If the editors, publishers, and other executives are notable enough for encyclopedic biographies, and categories aren't good enough, a list could be created for them also. -- Jeandré, 2007-11-21t20:32z
I'm thinking the point of the list was to address women across this particular field; if it were the plastics industry, I'm not sure it would make sense to include just the scientists and salespeople and not include women who made it into the ranks of company executives. Leaving out women who made a foothold, just because they're comics publishing executives, seems arbitrary and counterintuitive to me. --Tenebrae (talk) 21:17, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
The page can again be renamed, but not to "Women in comics", the same way the above example shouldn't be "People in plastic". -- Jeandré, 2007-11-22t15:24z

Geographical Range[edit]

The introduction to this page implies (but doesn't specifically say) this list is for women working in the American comic book industry. So I have removed a few Japanese creators (and I see there is one I missed, pus a French creator was just added). Was I wrong? Shadzane (talk) 00:27, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

I changed the introduction to specifically mention the North American market Shadzane (talk) 01:17, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
I'd prefer an article about how and why women artists have worked in comics throughout the years myself, covering broader spectrum of similarities and differences between American, European and Asian (at least the Japanese and Korean markets seem notable), myself. Since the title doesn't mention anything about limiting the scope to North America, I see no reason for exclusion.
If someone would be willing to lay out the bare bones for an article, it should probably mention, apart from major names in the American mainstream Ann Nocenti, Cathy Guisewite etc. etc. American feminist-conscious underground Trina Robbins, Wimmen's Comix, Tits and Clits etc. The French version Ah! Nana and European artists including Claire Bretecher and Marjane Satrapi, and the Japanese Year 24 Group and the female overtaking of shoujo manga, etc. If someone'd create some barebones, I'd try improwing the article. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 14:51, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Article rewrite[edit]

Any comments about the article rewrite I started? I tried to give a sense of some major artists and their place in history. Any ideas for improvement. It could probably need rephrasing, I used several recurring phrases etc. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 01:18, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Merge?[edit]

I think this would be better merged with Portrayal of women in comics to give a overall Women in comics article, making it easier to connect how the industry has changed with how the comics have changed. This would keep the anaylsis newly written (good job!), but lose the list, which is redundant to the categories imo. Similar articles such as Women in science fiction cover both the industry and representaion, and this approach makes it easier to reach GA imo.YobMod 11:03, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

You don't think that would make the article too long? 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 11:37, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
Not too long at the moment; once all the cleanup is done, the article is quite short - I think sections on history, criticism, creators, and fandom, will round the topic out. Then if enough sources are found to write sections and the sections get too long, we can consider remaking children articles, but from looking at the article histories, that is likely to take a few years.
Most of the good sources cover both topics, so it seems that only wikipedia has separated them, which makes it more difficult to readers to find what they are looking for. The combined article would only be 12Kb of prose, far below the level needing spliting.YobMod 11:48, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
Okay, I'll try to add a short section about Europe and Japan soon, covering some of the major artists and events there, and then we'd see whether the list should be deleted, branched out or how we should deal with it. I'd like to add some info about South Korea (and possibly South America) as well, but unfortunately I am not that well acquainted with these scenes. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 13:25, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
Btw, most of the info is taken from lambiek.net, if you'd like sources. Just search for the artists' names. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 13:26, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
Ok then - no rush about merging, can wait and see how long this gets. Adding the links to the source as you write it might be better though. Japan/Korea/Asia would be a great addition, as it often gets ignored in comic book articles.YobMod 08:46, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
I think at least a very basic overview of authors in Japan needs mentioning, as it seems to be the first market where female authors were treated as equal to males (commercially and artistically) and it seems to have had a very high impact in USA and Europe since at least the 90's, with probably thousands of girls and women outside Japan being inspired. Japan has had a huge and vibrant scene of comics both written and drawn by and for females for decades, that's unique. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 10:46, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
Or maybe South Korea, as well, but that scene has largely sprung out from manga (redefining it somewhat to fit their own culture), afaik. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 10:50, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Ah ! Nana[edit]

I had trouble finding good info on Ah! Nana, particularly anything at all in English, and had to make do with my rusty school French. There was an alright article in "Les cahiers du musée de la bande dessinée - no. 12", and Virginie Talet wrote an alright article here: [1] also see BDoubliées.com: [2] Claveloux, Cestac and Montellier don't have their own pages, but they could be found at Lambiek and/or French Wikipedia. (Claveloux got some recognition for her style in the 70's, but she has mostly illustrated children's books.) 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 01:16, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Further pondering[edit]

I wonder on if I should expand the article part with some further names. I'm unsure on which to include, though. I don't want this to become a laundry list. It would be more interesting to show how the market and its creators has evolved throughout the time, but it might take some more effort to write. I guess some more US mainstream and indie names could be added, although I'm a bit unsure on these scenes, and who to include. Maybe there should be some mention of Julie Doucet, she has had noable international impact in alternative circles, the whole alternative comics scene seems rather global. I might try to add some info about South Korea as well. It's hard to find good info, but there seems to have been a pioneering wave in the 80's. I'd like to add something about South America as well, Maitena Burundarena seems to have been rather successful. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 04:25, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

I think adding more people would unfortunately start to edge towards a laundry list - what it really needs is something to indicate why these women are important. eg:
"Another all-female comix book series was Tits and Clits Comix, initiated by Lyn Chevely and Joyce Farmer."
is verifiable, but the reader learns nothing about why this is a notable comic, or these women are notable creators. I think limiting it to firsts, award winners, controversies, etc. would be more interesting to read, and easier to understand why some names are just in the list, and others are important enough to discuss.
I've generally found book sources to be better at explaining things like this (online sources seem mostly concerned with making lists): eg. [3], which mentions early attempts by marvel's women staff that failed, but were popular with nurses. Google books brings up quite a lot about women in comics (which i'm currently searching to do someting about the criticism section in the portrayal article).YobMod 16:41, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, I know that. It easily turns into a laundry list, especially when it's about such relatively obscure topics that lacks Wikipedia articles for further information. But basically, T&C was an early all-female underground with seven issues published between 1972 and 1987 (which is relatively long-running and frequent by underground measures), which, just as "Wimmen's Comix" provided an outlet for female cartoonists to tell their own stories without censorship. Needs improvement and sourcing, though. Trina Robbins' books would be a good starting point. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 22:01, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
And also, if someone has "Manhwa, Another Discovery in Asian Comics" published by "Korea Culture and Content Agency", it might be interesting. From what I heard, it seems to read a lot like an advertisement for selling manhwa rights abroad, and probably downplays all its manga influences, but it's very hard to find any good info at all on the subject, so it might still be interesting. I don't know of any other book in English that goes through manhwa's history thoroughly. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 22:17, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
You could find some references about women in comics (both as creators and subject) here: http://www.lib.msu.edu/comics/rri/wrri/guidewh.htm The list might need some sifting, though. I just found out that there was an all-woman quarterly in the 90's (by practice mostly lesbian) called Oh... by B Publications. Unfortunately, it seems most of these publications never reach outside their rather ghettoized markets. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 09:41, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
I feel that I am roughly "complete" with my work here, now. I feel most of the major names and major movements are mentioned. Please feel free to improve the article or discuss with me if I have missed mentioning anything major. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 16:01, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Comic panel[edit]

"Comic panel" doesn't sound too good to me. It sounds like a panel from a comic, not a single panel-cartoon. Not that "serialized cartoon" is unambiguous, either. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 10:12, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Manga[edit]

Would Akira Amano and Matsuri Hino be different enough, or making a big enough impact to be notable? Seems like those examples have been inserted more or less randomly in the main article. Otherwise, I'm no expert on manga. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 16:20, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Also, I'm not very familiar with modern manga, but since there are so many female mangaka (in itself a good thing), the names mentioned in the article should have made a certain impact in the business except for just being popular,. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 21:49, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

More creators[edit]

More creators. While the articles aren't created and/or no refs are added, I'll list them here. All are French unless noted.

more here: fr:Catégorie:Dessinatrice.--Cattus talk 00:23, 31 January 2012 (UTC)