Talk:List of English-language hymnals by denomination
|This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:|
- 1 Questions about Revision of this page
- 2 Disingenuous disclaimer
- 3 Die Glaubensharfe
- 4 Old-Time Religion
- 5 Distinguising between the authorized (official,...) and other types of hymnals
- 6 Ilocano Hymns United
- 7 Roman catholic hymnals
- 8 Why does this page have...
- 9 Hymnals from/done for Organizations?
- 10 Catholicism is a denomination
- 11 Chartist hymnal
- 12 Name
Questions about Revision of this page
With regard to updating the "list of hymnals," I have several questions. I am reluctant to just jump in and start revising, without discussion beforehand.
First, if this is a list of English-language hymnals, there are many such books that are missing, for example, from England, Ireland, and Scotland. I see nothing here from the Philippines, India, South Africa, or Hong Kong. Is it not perhaps overreaching, to try to include all English-language hymnals from around the world? I think so. Second, is this a list of Christian hymnals? The introduction doesn't say that. I notice no Jewish hymnals, for example. Are the Mormons Christian? I think not. Third, like Haruo, below, I think the "Catholic" section needs a lot of revision. To speak of "third-party" publishers is unclear. Who is "second-party"? OCP, for one, is wholly owned by the Archdiocese of Portland; that's not "third-party." GIA, on the other hand, is not Catholic at all. True, GIA has produced many hymnals for Catholics; but that's not GIA's identity. The Harris family, which owns the firm, is Jewish. Moreover, GIA produces hymnals for Anglicans, Baptists, Lutherans, and others; it is also a major distributor of music education materials, with no denominational basis. I would consider GIA as a non-denominational or inter-faith publisher. WLP should be clearly identified as part of J.S. Paluch. They also have other hymnals, such as We Celebrate. Moreover, WLP years ago was at 1800 Winnemac in Chicago. But they have been in Franklin Park, Illinois, for many years; they are not in Chicago. They have a lot of revenue from church bulletins. Hence, I'm not sure it's accurate to speak of them as "third-largest." Besides, what's the point of such a classification? Does one wish to exalt OCP? I would rather put publishers of Catholic hymnals in simple, alphabetical order, by name. Also, as Berlin Boy points out, a missalette is not a hymnal. But if missalettes are to be included, all missalette publishers should be listed, no? Missalettes can and do have 50 to 100 or more songs, so I guess they could be classified as hymnals of a sort. But should they be in this list? What do you think? --Michael Gilligan, Ph.D. Michael Gilligan 01:37, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
Singing the Living Tradition . Boston: The Unitarian Universalist Association, 1993. This book deserves it's own entry :) Mathiastck 18:05, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
I am not sure what to do about the Catholic section. The initial assertion (referring to OCP, GIA etc as "third-party" as if this somehow made them non-Catholic) seems disingenuous to me. The "C" in OCP stands for Catholic; the "G" in GIA for Gregorian; the Collegeville folks are Benedictines; etc. Most of their hymnals per se (as distinct from less formal songbooks, hymnal supplements and the like) are specifically Catholic denominational books, with mass settings prescribed by Rome and a wealth of e.g. Marian hymnody that would not fly even in most Anglican contexts. Most protestant denominations do not actually require their congregations to use the denominational hymnal, for that matter; so that italicized heading to the RC section seems to me slightly NPOV, though I'm not sure how best to emend it. --Haruo 08:50, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
I agree. I'm not sure how many of these "hymnals" are just pamphlets intended for short-term use, not really hymnals in the classical sense. My experience in the Roman Catholic Church is that they have monthly or seasonal Missals with hymns in them for use in that season. That to me is not really a hymnal and should not be included here. On the other hand, Gather is truly a hymnal and should definitely be included. -Berlin Boy
- The Adoremus Hymnal is hardcover, and contains a variety of settings. (I don't use it, since I'm not Catholic- but I do have a copy.) It contains a number of hymns (both in the traditional definition and the modern version of any congregational sacred song), including the first anti-abortion hymn/song I've seen. Given the specific needs of Catholics for missals, as well as hymnals which contain the order of the Mass, I'm unsure if this could be kept in a separate section.Orville Eastland (talk) 00:16, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
Is Die Glaubensharfe (listed under North American Baptists) actually an English-language hymnal?? I have my doubts. A list of hymnals in german and other languages would be nice, but this article claims to be (and for the most part is) limited to English-language ones. --Haruo 10:09, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
- No. It's all in German. It could qualify, since it's notable in some contexts. (It may contain the first published work by Walter Rauschenbusch (I'd have to verify it- if you're curious, it's a translation of "My Country, 'Tis of Thee" into German.).) Perhaps if we include separate lists of German hymnals on a separate page? Orville Eastland (talk) 00:18, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
- Not sure what you mean. This article (List of hymnals) is about book-bound collections of hymns. But the item you mention seems to be about an individual hymn/song. (You'll see that this article doesn't mention particular hymns/songs.) Could you describe your request in more detail? Feline Hymnic (talk) 13:33, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
This list appears to contain primarily "authorized" denominational hymnals, but includes at least one "supplemental" (Cokesbury). Two suggestions:
- Clarify the scope/intent in the lead paragraph. Is the focus hymnals authorized or commissioned by a denomination or all hymnals including denominational Sunday school/youth hymnbooks and those produced by Sankey, Tullar-Meredith, Stamps/Baxter, Hope Publishing, etc? Also, is intent "in print" hymnals or any ever published?
- If list includes both "authorized" and other types, would be good to somehow identify which are the "authorized" hymnals of the denominations as well as which are "primary" versus "supplemental" (optional, approved alternative, etc.)
What represents an authorized (or official, etc) hymnal varies by denomination. But generally they involve a committee commissioned by some denominational authority and are intended (or required in some cases) for use within the main worship services. Both "primary" and "supplemental" hymnals may be "authorized". The "primary" ones tend to be published in sequence at intervals of 15 to 30 years, though multiple "primary" hymnals (or special editions of the same) have been created in parallel to address language, ethnic, economic, and other differences across a denomination's membership. Rostdo (talk) 12:31, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
- It should be noted that some denominations may not publish their own hymnals at present, so they may use hymnals of other denominations. (For example, the Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church hasn't published a hymnal or psalter in a while, but they do allow the OPC & PCA's Trinity Hymnal.) Orville Eastland (talk) 00:21, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
Ilocano Hymns United
Roman catholic hymnals
Why does this page have...
the Lutheranism Portal at the bottom??
- Good call. I've removed it. Hymnals (the topic of this article) cover almost all denominations; this article shouldn't be privileging one above the others (unless there is really good reason to do so... which there doesn't seem to be). Feline Hymnic (talk) 20:30, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Hymnals from/done for Organizations?
It should be noted that hymnals (or similar works) don't have to be done for denominations. I have at least two hymnals/songbooks from various religious camps which have been used in a supplemental role by various congregations. In addition, the BBC has published two hymnals through Oxford University Press. Further, the US Armed Forces have used hymnals/worshipbooks from various sources through their history (I have two), at least one of which was published by the GPO! Should these be included? If so, in what category? Orville Eastland (talk) 00:25, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
Catholicism is a denomination
Not sure why RCs have been given special status here. Elsewhere on Wikipedia we are calling them a Christian denomination. Right now we have one Jewish and a whole bunch of Protestant and some other Christian groups under "denominational." I think the primary distinction should be by religion (so Christian vs. Jewish), and then Catholic, Protestant, and so on, using List of Christian Denominations as a model. Inter-denominational hymnals could be included at the applicable level, since none of them span all of Christianity. Let me know what you think and if I don't hear anything I'll start making changes. JFHutson (talk) 15:57, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
Chartism, if it refers here to the mid 19th century political movement in Britain, is not a religious denomination. Yes, it is believed that the Chartists produced a hymn book, but it is surely only of historical interest. Norvo (talk) 03:51, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
Gerda Arendt, to address your valid point, maybe this article would benefit from being renamed to something like List of English-language hymnals or List of English-language hymnals by denomination. --Devin Murphy (talk) 18:24, 19 August 2014 (UTC)