Talk:List of jazz standards

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Criteria for List[edit]

Interesting with a list of jazz pieces, but what should be the criteria for being on the list? It would, of course, be meaningless to have a list of all jazz pieces ever made. Should it be groundbreaking pieces? The best pieces?

Pharaohmø 14:04, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Linking[edit]

It would, of course, be meaningless to have a list of all jazz pieces ever made. Should it be groundbreaking pieces? The best pieces?

I agree, only the peices that were important to the history of jazz or popular jazz songs should be added. There is alsoanother problem: The links in this article tend to lead to different articles with the same name or disambugations. The links should always end at the exact article.

Items Removed[edit]

I deleted "Epitaph" from the Mingus sections. It's a 90 minute suite, and certainly not a jazz standard. I also deleted the Bob Graettinger section. Did anyone really perform his songs besides Stan Kenton? Apple Christmas 16:10, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Gershwin, Kern, Rodgers & Hart, etc.?[edit]

I think the idea behind this page is fundamentally flawed. Listing standards by "jazz" composers would leave out all the Tin Pan Alley guys who composed many of (most of?) the real jazz standards. I also think that without linking each song to a page about that song, this whole list will be meaningless. It would just be a list of song titles, and what good would that do anyone? Perhaps the article should be deleted? Apple Christmas 16:10, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

The problem about Tin Pan Alley standards was fixed when List of mainstream jazz standards was merged here. Jafeluv (talk) 12:51, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

The Purpose[edit]

A list of jazz titles is not meaningless, especially if it is categorized correctly. The list is also useful to people like me who research meaningless bits of data in order to write stories, or two people wishing to look at a reference list of musicians alongside the songs they wrote. The way I see it, however, is that the list should be organized by way of person or person(s) most responsible for the creation of the song. In this case, the Tin Pan Alley boys would have their own section IF it wasn't just one of them for creating the song.DaedalusMachina 17:58, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I like this list[edit]

I found it very useful as I'm not really sure where to find various Jazz artists anyplace else. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.38.7.106 (talk) 00:25, 21 October 2007 (UTC)


Related list that could be created for Wikipedia: Jazz tunes of disputed authorship and/or known under multiple titles[edit]

Whether through sloppiness on the part of album annotators, bad communication from the artist, or outright deception, there is a substantial list of tunes where a writer is either omitted from the publishing credits or substituted altogether. For example:

Rue Chaptal/Royal Roost/Tenor Madness (as by Fats Navarro, Charlie Parker, Sonny Rollins, and many others), Steeplechase/Easy Swing (as by Charlie Parker, Wardell Gray), Eronel (a tune by Idrees Sulieman and Argonne Thornton a.k.a. Sadik Hakim with a small contribution from Thelonious Monk that is usually attributed soley to Monk), Tuxedo Junction/Artillerie Lourde (Erskine Hawkins tune "borrowed" by Django Reinhardt during a period when Nazi occupiers suppressed American swing tunes), St. Thomas (a traditional melody usually attributed to Sonny Rollins), Milestones, Donna Lee, Rifftide, Crazeology, Bouncing with Bud/Bebop in Pastel, Fool's Fancy/Wail, Four and Tune Up.

I guess the page could include sections on 1.) traditional tunes attributed to Jazz musicians (i.e. "St. Thomas") 2.) Jazz tunes of undisputed authorship known under multiple titles (i.e. "Sid's Delight/Tadd's Delight") 3.) Jazz Tunes known under two different titles, each attributed to different writers (i.e. "Steeplechase / Easy Swing" or "Royal Roost / Tenor Madness") 4.) Jazz tunes where all writers are not commonly acknowledged (i.e. "Eronel", or half the famous pieces by Duke Ellington) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.136.166.246 (talk) 20:10, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

References[edit]

A list of references to cite and expand the list:

Proposed merger[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
The result was merge. -- Jafeluv (talk) 12:48, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

The different lists of jazz standards (List of jazz standards and lists of Dixieland, bebop, bossa nova, Latin and funk, mainstream, modal and post-bop and swing standards) should be merged into one. The division is totally arbitrary. Who decides what's "mainstream"? Why are Latin and funk tunes in the same list? Besides, there are duplicate entries in the lists. Obviously there's also the problem about the lists being completely unreferenced.

I have one proposal of the merged list in my sandbox - I've taken the songs from each list and tried to find sources for the ones I could. Also, I added the top 100 from jazzstandards.com and all the songs from Category:Jazz standards that I could find sources for. Comments are welcome on the structure of the list, as well as on the sourcing, ordering etc.

I'm not sure what the criteria for inclusion should be, however. One way would be to include only songs that have been performed (recorded?) by more than, say, 50 different jazz artists. There's, however, a problem with making the list of performers verifiable, especially if a song has no article of its own. Another way would be to require a certain number of major fake/real books that include the song.

Anyway, any comments are welcome on the merger and on the proposed list! Jafeluv (talk) 06:36, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Briefly: I agree with the merger suggestion, and your sandboxed version is a very solid proposal. I have no advice for inclusion criteria.
My only related suggestion, would be to try to retain some of the information in the sub-list-articles, by copying into their associated genre articles. E.g. could part or all of the List of swing jazz standards be moved to the Swing music article? That would obviously need its own sourcing, and the "mainstream" list doesn't belong anywhere, but it would be nice to keep some of the "by-genre" info available. (Just thinking outloud...) -- Quiddity (talk) 20:09, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Support merge per WP:MERGE. I thought that the articles would benefit from merging as well the last time I looked at the page. As far as what to include, Wiki is not paper, as long as entries are verifiable in a reliable secondary source, in my opinion there really is no limit to how many can be included. The repertoire of Jazz standards change over time: the list from a 1950s fake book is very different from a list a 2000s Real Book. I don't see any reason why the article couldn't include them all and possibly trace the historic changes over time.

How to organize is tricky. Most collections of standards are organized by composition title, sometimes with additional indexes by author. The New Real Book series has an index for genre. I think the most useful list would be sortable by either/or title, author, genre and year, and not necessarily just by year. The broader question is probably which method of organization is most encyclopaedic? dissolvetalk 21:14, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Support the merge per nom. Organization might be good to do by era, and a table format would be a lot more useful than the current treed-bullet format. Shadowjams (talk) 09:38, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.


I've left a note at each of the genre talkpages (Talk:Bebop, Talk:Bossa nova, Talk:Modal jazz, Talk:Jazz-funk, Talk:Latin Jazz, Talk:Swing music, Talk:Dixieland) to let them know. (Feel free to tweak my notes, if I missed any important details.)

Thanks again for the great improvement here Jafeluv :) -- Quiddity (talk) 19:06, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

I Remember Clifford 1937??? More like 1957, right?[edit]

I'm pretty sure Clifford Brown was still alive in 1937 and that this song was written and published much later than the date listed (1937). Can someone please help me fix this? I believe "I Remember Clifford" should be moved to the 1950's section with 1957 as the correct year that Benny Golson composed the song. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gadjoproject (talkcontribs) 17:21, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Good catch. The tune is copyright 1957 (renewed in 1985). I moved it to reflect this. dissolvetalk 18:55, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

criteria?[edit]

This article is a list without criteria or citations? What makes something a JAZZ standard? I'd imagine one useful form of criteria would be if the song appeared in more than one of the commonly used Fake Books. At least that way, there is some way to support a claim. Kingturtle = (talk) 16:59, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Issues about titles[edit]

Songs with multiple titles

An example, these titles are all the same song:

  • Aunt Hagar's Blues
  • Aunt Hagar's Children
  • Aunt Hagar's Children's Blues

---

Songs with unusual spellings

  • Ev'ry Time We Say Goodbye

---

Songs with "gender issues" - by that I mean he/she and man/woman/girl.

I couldn't find a good he/she example.

  • The Man I Love

If it's sung by a man it's "The Girl I Love"

---

Note: people often search lists with ctrl-f so if it were up to me I'd make the list like this:

"The common title" ["Changed gender (etc?) title"]

Example

  • The Man I Love [The Girl I Love]

"The common title" ["Common (modern) spelling"]

  • Ev'ry Time We Say Goodbye [Every Time We Say Goodbye]

How do other Wikipedia list pages deal with these problems? — Preceding unsigned comment added by AllThatJazz2012 (talkcontribs) 16:25, 7 June 2012 (UTC)