Talk:List of rabbis
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- 1 Start List
- 2 Jesus a "rabbi"?
- 3 "Achronim"
- 4 In the list?
- 5 Are they rabbi? (qualification)
- 6 page needed?
- 7 Yehezkel Abramsky
- 8 Criteria for "20th Century" and "Contemporary" ?
- 9 Chareidi Leaders vs. Modern Rabbis
- 10 Recent additions - notable or not?
- 11 Lock
- 12 What about the Soferim?
- 13 Jehuda ben Tabbai
- 14 Simeon ben Shetah
- 15 Criteria for inclusion as rabbi
Mazel Tov! I think it is about time that there should be a list for rabbis, after all they have been around for over 2,000 years... IZAK 16:36, 29 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Don't forget Dov Zakheim. : ) --Ezra 16:39, 2004 Apr 29 (UTC)
Jesus a "rabbi"?
I wonder if we should include Jesus of Nazareth as a rabbi, or is that too controversial to be NPOV? Rickyrab 12:26, 3 May 2004 (UTC)
- What kind of "rabbi" would he have been? He was the founder of a different religion called "Christianity". IZAK 03:07, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)
This is a claim advanced a some fringe groups, and it is severely POV. There is very little evidence that Jesus was originally a pharisee. This is the stuff of edit wars; I would recommend you leave it alone. Very few Jews will agree that Jesus was a rabbi, and criteria for becoming a rabbi are still being set by Jews, right? JFW | T@lk 07:48, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)
- I thought, he was a Jew... Shmuel haBalshan 15:31, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
The following by RK needs review:
- "Acharonim is a Hebrew word meaning "later"; it refers to rabbis from the mid-1600s to the present. Orthodox Judaism restricts the useage of this term to Orthodox rabbis; Conservative Jews apply this term to all rabbis from this era who accept Jewish law and tradition as normative, including Orthodox and Conservative rabbis, as well as many rabbis not identified with either movement. Reform and Reconstructionist Jews may apply this term to any rabbis from this era."
Who made this up? Firstly, there are no "Conservative" or "Reform" rabbis in the 1600s and the 1700s. Secondly, since when have Reform, Reconstructionist and even Conservative Jews even acknowledged this label of "Achronim"? Thirdly, none of the rabbis mentioned in "Early Achronim" can be regarded as non-Orthodox. Finally, in the sections that commence with the rabbis of the Conservative, Reform, Reconstructionist, and other sub-groups, feel free to insert one line, preferably a Wiki-link about their beliefs, as this is a LIST and is not the place to insert whole paragraphs about who believes what and when and why etc. Thank you. IZAK 07:49, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)
In the list?
Are they rabbi? (qualification)
- Martin Buber
- Levinas (talmudist)
- Cyrus Adler - a contributor of the Jewish Encyclopedia
- Israel Jacobson
- Isaac Noah Mannheimer (reform rabbi?)
I know many people worked very hard on this page, but I have to question it's usefulness. Many of the other sections (for example, the tannaim and amoraim), have their own pages with their own lists of rabbis. This page also seems much less complete than many of the others and is usually updated after the more "specialized" pages. Perhaps we should just replace this page with a series of links to amoraim, tannaim, modern rabbis, etc. --Bachrach44 01:43, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
- Take it easy. As articles or lists grow they may then split off into subsections of new articles or lists. But this is a "List" so new articles from here would need to become new "List of ____" articles. IZAK 11:00, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
But this list is full of errors, it is not in chronological order in its subdivisions and so on! Shmuel haBalshan 15:30, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
Firstly, the above is the normal spelling of his name in English and also the title of the article about him on Wikipedia, so it should not be altered to Yechezkel. Secondly, he was very desirous of living in Israel. He applied in 1926 and 1928 to emigrate, but was refused by the Russian authorities. He finally went on aliyah in 1951, as soon as he retired. It seems odd to deny that he was a Zionist. Thirdly, as head of the London Beth Din, a body paid for by the United Synagogue, he was an employee of the United Synagogue. The London Beth Din is not the sole Beth Din for all Jews in London.--184.108.40.206 13:45, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
1 The normal spelling of his name in English is Yechezkel, not Yehezkel. The Wikipedia article should be changed to reflect the name by which he was known, Yechezkel. 2 Most chareidi Jews wanted to emigrate to Palestine (not Israel, which did not exist then). That does make them Zionists. 3 No-one denies that he was at one time an employee of the United Synagogue— so what? He was also at vartious times an employee of several communities in Lita and of the Machzikei Hadath. --Redaktor 20:15, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Criteria for "20th Century" and "Contemporary" ?
What are the criteria for rabbis being sorted as 20th Century or Contemporary ?
What should be the criteria? Jheald 21:48, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
Chareidi Leaders vs. Modern Rabbis
First, why the change in language -- "leaders" instead of "rabbis"
I think that for much of the list, that line is anachronistic, and therefore I could argue that several of the "Chareidi Leaders" were actually Modern Orthodox. Not because that would be more accurate, but because we're fitting people into two sides of a divide that they personally never dealt with.
E.g.: R' Shimon Shkop taught at YU. Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan wrote the majority of his books for NCSY, an arm of the OU. The Torah Temimah utilizes outside sources. Etc... micha (talk) 22:29, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
Recent additions - notable or not?
Over the past few weeks a number of what appear to be non-notable rabbis have been added to the list. They have been added and reverted a number of times by various editors. There have been various discussions on the merits or otherwise of the inclusion of these rabbis however these have taken place on personal talk pages so I thought it would be sensible to bring the discussion to the place where perhaps it should have been all along and attempt to reach a consensus. The rabbis/edits in question are these.
The salient points have all been covered on User talk:Happy138 and the conversation below has been copied from that page:
Since you are aware of these rabbis I would suggest that you research the matter prior to deleting these great rabbis of the 20th century. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 20:33, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
- I think you should bring some proof and then we'll leave you alone. Happy138 (talk) 20:37, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Finally, a sane person on WIKI -- I will give you sources. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rumusnia (talk • contribs) 20:39, 7 January 2008 (UTC) here's the first reference http://www.cor.ca/en/11541 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rumusnia (talk • contribs) 20:42, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
here's the second reference http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beth_Avraham_Yoseph_of_Toronto —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rumusnia (talk • contribs) 20:45, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
here's the third reference http://www.jewishsf.com/content/2-0-/module/displaystory/story_id/20613/edition_id/421/format/html/displaystory.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rumusnia (talk • contribs) 20:48, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
- I've taken a look at the information in the links above and analysed them against the requirements of WP:RS & WP:NOTE
- Rabbi Y Kerzner. Link is to a website that would pass as a reliable source - reputable Jewish organisation. Content proves that Rabbi Kerzner exists, that he is the Chair of an organisation and that he has valid concerns about mass-produced food being properly kosher. I struggle to see any notability there. Passes WP:RS Fails WP:NOTE
- Rabbi Baruch Taub. Link is to another Wikipedia pages - Wikipedia is not supposed to be self-referential so this is a problem to start with. Taub is mentioned as the Rabbi of a Toronto Synagogue although he is not mentioned on the webpage given as the source for the paragraph in which his name appears. Fails WP:RS Fails WP:NOTE
- Rabbi Dovid Schochet. Link is to the Jewish News Weekly of Northern California which is a reliable source. Content is an article in which Schochet is quoted once and described as the head of the Lubavitch movement in Toronto but no mention of anything notable. Passes WP:RS Fails WP:NOTE
- These three men are undoubtably fine rabbis but the above links give no indication of why they are any more notable than the many thousand other fine rabbis across the globe and a prerequisite for inclusion in the List of rabbis is notability. In my opinion the sources prove that the edits in question are factually correct (which I don't think that anyone was disputing) but do not in anyway justify their inclusion. nancy (talk) 21:37, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
- I included these people because they are at least as notable of many other on the list. The only issue I think you have is that they were recently added. However these people are all known world wide as experts in their areas. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rumusnia (talk • contribs) 16:20, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
- It may be true that these gentlemen are "known world-wide" but until there are sources to back up these claims then they remain unverified and any editor would be within their rights to remove the names from the list. One thing thing that you may have noticed is that the other rabbis on the list all have their own wikipedia pages which is a good indication of notability. Kind regards, nancy (talk) 16:39, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
- Nancy - not true .. if you check the reform rabbis of the 20th century you'll see that half of them at least don't have pages associated with them either. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rumusnia (talk • contribs) 17:17, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
- So remove them already. ;) nancy (talk) 19:51, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
- I don't think that would be the correct response. I give the authors the benefit of the doubt that the people listed SHOULD be listed and I certainly wouldn't challenge them. There has to be a balance. We can see in our world today what happens when a group feel they are right and everyone else is wrong. Not pleasant! Rumusnia (talk) 20:05, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
What about the Soferim?
The pre mishna Rabbis are not regarded as Tannarim but as Soferim (Numberers or possibly as Writers). The last of the Zugot Hillel and Shammai are perhaps the first of the Tannarim although they also qualify as Soferim. The titling of the article should be corrected to allow for this.Macrocompassion (talk) 13:17, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
Jehuda ben Tabbai
In the list he is wrongly called a Nasi (president) but in the detailed description for the zugot, during this period, Simeon be Shetah was Nasi (twice) and took Jehuda as his vice-president and chief Justice. —Preceding unsigned comment added by David Chester (talk • contribs) 14:07, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
Simeon ben Shetah
Please review my remark above about Jehuda ben Tabbai. The roles of Nesi and Av Bet Din have been reversed between these two Rabbis. Also please note that only during the reign of Queen Salomi did Jehuda fill the role of Av Bet Din Sanhedran. Macrocompassion (talk) 14:18, 10 May 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by David Chester (talk • contribs) 14:12, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
Criteria for inclusion as rabbi
Some clear guidelines need to be set for inclusion in this article. Many of the rabbis on the list do not practice as rabbis in the sense of ruling on Jewish law. Y. Mendelovitch, for example, is a person of distinction, but not for being a rabbi. He doesn't qualify for this list. The same goes for principals who happen to also be rabbis. Being a principal is a fine position, but it's not the rabbinate. They belong in a list of principals, if such exists. I've removed some names, but I want to hear comments --18.104.22.168 (talk) 13:37, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
- I agree. This list has always bothered me. I definitely think it's good to have a list of crucial rabbis in history like the amoraim and tannaim, but the list in its current format could potentially have thousands of modern day rabbis. I don't even know where to start. shirulashem (talk) 16:26, 17 May 2009 (UTC)