Talk:List of wars and anthropogenic disasters by death toll

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Entries on this list that are neither disaster nor wars[edit]

The worst is "European colonization of the Americas". First, it is *by far* the longest event, being over 2x as long as the second-longest (Crusades). Second, it involved many different nations and peoples fighting many others for various reasons in various ways over many years. Might as well add "Roman conquests" if we're going to add this. Third, most of those killed died without ever contacting a European; they died from European diseases that raced hundreds of miles and years ahead of the Europeans themselves. If anything, this item should go in a list of epidemics.

If we are going to insist on keeping this, we need to apply these standards consistently to other events like the Roman conquests, Muslim conquests, European conquest of Africa, and so on. But we shouldn't because these are eras in history not 'wars' or 'disasters'. Even the Mongol conquests entry is stretching the definition of 'war' since it spans 168 years and dozens of political entities. Crusades is just as bad - there were like 9 of them; if we combine these we might as well combine "The World Wars" into a single event and also include deaths from the Spanish Flu. e.g. The second crusade started 50 years after the first crusade ended - twice the time as between WW1 and WW2.

I'm going to remove the entry now unless someone can come up with some consistent rule that includes it. I also want to open discussion on removing Mongol Conquests and Crusades for above-mentioned reasons. Mongol conquests and crusades should be broken into specific wars and specific crusades. Casimirin (talk) 19:40, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Meseems we should at least have a reference to the series of diseases that wiped out much of the North American population when Europeans arrived. The "howling wilderness" of the Pilgrims' time was the result of massive depopulation by disease of a land that had had areas so thickly populated that the smoke from fires could be smelled hundreds of miles out to sea ([1] Mann, p.50).
*Septegram*Talk*Contributions* 22:41, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Seriously ! Again the Muslims appear on the top of the list..[edit]

We have reached a consensus that the sources provided are non reliable. And these distortions of history are obvious ! Stop spamming and re-adding the "Muslim conquest of the Indian subcontinent" to the list. As if the Muslims at that time (1000-1525 AD as mentioned) had Atomic/Nuclear BOMBS to cause such ridiculously high death number ! Even more than the WW2, should we even present sources for these high numbers to be proven wrong. It is obviously not reliable. Please remove the "Muslim conquest of the Indian subcontinent" from the top of the list.

Ya, they had a lot of these.

Israel / Palestine conflict notably missing[edit]

Deaths on both sides - one side has a historic figure that is higher than some other tolls quoted here - 2 million is no small number- i think it should be added if we can agree a reliable source - UN figures ? or these

The Occupied Palestinian avoidable deaths since 1950 are estimated from UN Population Division data (2002 revision) at 677,000 and for all of Palestine at 0.677 million x 5.7 million (all Palestinians still within Palestine)/4.1 million (Occupied Palestinians) = 940,000. However we must also include Palestinians outside Palestine and forbidden to return (roughly 2 times those within Palestine) and thus the estimate of post-1950 Palestinian avoidable deaths from imposed deprivation = 0.94 million x 2 = 1.88 million = 1.9 million. 77.86.111.244 (talk) 22:30, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

<https://sites.google.com/site/palestiniangenocide/>

Probably because the idea of a Palestinian genocide is a farce, a blood libel chanted every time there is a war/operation and Arabs sleeping next to missiles get killed. For starters more Jews have been killed by Arab terror than vice versa. Secondly, the genocide is not going very well as the population hasn't experienced any stunted growth. Further the only actual genocide like event was Black September in which the Jordanians did anything of significance. So stop whining and stop reading stupid webpages. Saxophonemn (talk) 08:33, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Black Death?[edit]

The lede of the anthropogenic hazard article says "Anthropogenic hazards or human-made hazards can result in the form of a human-made disaster. In this case, anthropogenic means threats having an element of human intent, negligence, or error; or involving a failure of a human-made system" (emphasis added)

Given that the Black Death appears to have been spread by merchant shipping, and killed almost half of Europe and about 15% of humanity extant at the time, it might warrant a mention here. Thoughts?

*Septegram*Talk*Contributions* 17:21, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Death toll from Anthropogenic Global Warming?[edit]

By using the term "anthropogenic disasters" we must include anthropogenic global warming. The anthropogenic global warming disaster will progressively worsen, so we might as well include it now.

The WHO is counting. And other NGOs and groups are scrambling for good data.

"Climate-change disasters kill around 300,000 people a year..." [1] LONDON — Climate-change disasters kill around 300,000 people a year and cause about $125 billion in economic losses, mainly from agriculture, a think-tank led by former U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan reported Friday.

Climate Change Analysis Predicts Increased Fatalities from Heat Waves "From 1987 to 2005, Chicago experienced 14 heat waves lasting an average of 9.2 days, which resulted in an estimated 53 excess deaths per year. In the future, the researchers calculated that excess mortality attributable to heat waves to range from 166 to 2,217 per year. According to the researchers, the projections of excess deaths could not be explained by projected increases in city population alone. The exact change due to global warming in annual mortality projections, however, is sensitive to the choice of climate model used in analysis." [2]

Also other links. http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs266/en/ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/26/climate-change-deaths_n_1915365.html http://www.nrdc.org/globalwarming/killer-heat/files/killer-summer-heat-report.pdf http://mic.com/articles/21419/climate-change-kills-5-million-people-every-year http://www.parncutt.org/model.html Rpauli (talk) 04:21, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Since global warming is a progressively worsening condition, it may be time to assemble data and track some of the effects

One difference is that items on this article has listed disasters that are essentially point sources. Wars and famine are local. Even a regional calamity is a small subset of a global devastation. This is to suggest that it may be time for a stand alone entry "Current estimate of death toll from anthropogenic global warming" This will, of course, have plenty of room for argumentation - for instance, when changing climate permits the incursion of the malaria mosquito to the Northern US or Canada and many deaths result, that may be labeled an indirect cause of death. Whereas a heatwave will most certainly be direct. But both are caused by anthropogenic global warming.

Article Signs of "anthropogenic climate disruption (ACD) are all around us now, evident to anyone willing to see them." http://truth-out.org/news/item/28864-species-extinctions-human-chronic-disease-on-the-rise-as-climate-disruption-mounts "A recent survey of members of the American Thoracic Society, which represents 15,000 physicians and medical professionals involved in respiratory and critical care medicine, found that they are already seeing dramatic health effects in their patients that they believe are linked to ACD. An overwhelming 89 percent of the health-care professionals agreed that ACD is occurring, 65 percent of them said ACD was relevant to patient care, and 77 percent said they have already seen an increase in chronic diseases related to air pollution."

"A report published in the National Academy of Sciences by a University of Missouri-Columbia researcher warned that ACD might give you intestinal worms: Rising sea levels around coastal river deltas could lead to increased prevalence of flukes that can cause infections and internal organ inflammation if ingested by humans."

"Another recent report, this one from the Yale Project on Climate Change Communication, listed seven ways ACD can kill you, from deadly bug bites, to respiratory and asthma problems, to lack of water."

"Furthermore, the World Health Organization already estimates that ACD will cause at least an additional 250,000 deaths per year around the globe between 2030 and 2050."


— Preceding unsigned comment added by Rpauli (talkcontribs) 20:30, 2 February 2015 (UTC) 
While I agree in principle to an entry on deaths that have been caused by anthropogenic global warming, we need a (or preferably a few) reliable source(s) that actually estimate a death toll. Of the links above, I believe only this one provides an estimate. However, this source is self-contradictory and does not appear reliable. The headline reads "Climate Change Kills 5 Million People Every Year", but the article states that climate change was estimated to kill 1.01 million people in one specific year (2010) with the remaining deaths due to other aspects of fossil fuel use such as pollution and occupational hazards. (Whether there should be an entry on deaths due to pollution is an interesting question.) I'm not familiar with DARA and whether it is considered a reliable source in Wikipedia. Perhaps the original DARA report would be a source for establishing a lower estimate of 1.05 million?--Wikimedes (talk) 04:23, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Afghanistan[edit]

There are two entries in the list for Afghanistan (War in Afghanistan and Soviet war in Afghanistan). Since there is significant overlap here, one of them should be removed. Looking at the respective articles, it appears the Soviet War is a much more distinct and clearly defined entity, and also the source of greater casualties than the rest of the time period covered in the War in Afghanistan article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.190.133.187 (talk) 06:26, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

  1. ^ http://www.nbcnews.com/id/30998907/ns/us_news-environment/t/climate-change-death-toll-put-year
  2. ^ http://www.jhsph.edu/news/news-releases/2011/peng-heat-waves.html