Talk:Local derby

USA

I question whether the USA should be in this. You don't hear "derby" or "local derby" used much here. "Crosstown rivalry" is heard much more often.

On the other hand, in US college sports, there are innumerable "annual grudge matches", chiefly in football - frequently these are between schools located in one state, such as Alabama-Auburn, or Texas-Texas A&M, or in neighboring states, such as Michigan-Ohio State, or Florida-Georgia, or even in non-adjacent states, such as Oklahoma-Nebraska. Ellsworth 17:49, 25 September 2004 (UTC)

International derbies

I've added in a tentative start at an international list (country vs country) at the bottom of the article - it needs considerable expansion, and I'm not 100% convinced this is the best place in the article for it. Input welcomed! Grutness|^hello? 01:36, 1 January 2005 (UTC)

Hi. I just have to add that I do think that the international 'derbies' page, really doesn't qualify as a derby as such, but more of a rivalry. I personally think that it qualifies for its own page, before more matches are added to the list. Other people's opinions on this? - Master Of Ninja 23:52, 13 March 2005 (UTC)

I disagree. "Local" is relative. In rugby union, Australia-New Zealand is a derby; New Zealand-South Africa is a rivalry. Certainly, countries with a land border have a local element at the margin. Joestynes 05:49, 14 March 2005 (UTC)

On another topic, I don't know that Northern Ireland v Republic of Ireland is a major rivalry. They haven't played very often (this site lists 4 pairs of qualifiers and 1 friendly), and few of the matches were memorable or important. Perhaps not every political cleavage corresponds to a sporting rivalry. Certainly Republic fans would get more excited about playing England (not that England fans would get too excited — I guess rivalries ought to be symmetric to merit inclusion). Joestynes 09:22, 13 April 2005 (UTC)

I would say England fans would get very excited, just look at the 1992 (not sure of year) when it had to be abandoned. SouthEastLad —Preceding undated comment added 13:01, 15 February 2006 (UTC).

'Rivalries' that aren't quite 'Derbies'

I've searched quite a bit but I'm yet to find a page that deals with hotly contested sporting rivalries that aren't neccessarily 'local' (e.g. 'El Classico' between Barca and Real Madrid, Liverpool v Manchester United in England). Is there a page I have missed, and if there isn't, do these matches deserve some sort of a mention here? --Alilaw 16:24, 26 January 2005 (UTC)

http://www.footballderbies.com/ - Go here; meaning to add to page for a wee bit, so did it just now. You probably could do a wikipedia article on it, but I'd be hard pressed thinking a name for it. "Football rivalries" maybe? - Master Of Ninja 18:04, 26 January 2005 (UTC)

Oslo Derby

If the derby is west against east,why do both teams have the same stadium? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.156.71.55 (talk) 07:53, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Because Lyn is generally regarded as the team belonging to the upper-class (the former king of Norway being a prominent supporter and all), meaning they belong to Western Oslo (the richer part of Oslo). Vålerenga is the team belonging to the eastern, more poorer part, of Oslo. Besides they didn't always use to share the stadium. Salmon 12:55, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

North east (England) "derbies"

Must we have "north east" (England) derbies included in the UK section? I usually take a derby to mean teams within the same city or county. Yes, there are exceptions such as Manchester United V Leeds (because of the War of the Roses Pennine thing) and can operate of a regional scale but you don't hear about "North West derbies or South East derbies. Newcastle and Sunderland are within the same county, therefore it's a Tyne-Wear derby. Middlesbrough have no great connection with Newcastle or Sunderland. Ask a Geordie or Mackem about Middlesbrough, there usually isn't a great feeling of identity or shared history with the area. Not that I mean to be too harsh of Middlesbrough but it's virutally Yorkshire (well...at one time it kind of was). There is a great distance between the Tees and the Tyne. It just annoys me when people use the "North East" as if it is a city in its own right, the same with Scotland.

Also, whilst it is true that Carlisle, being in Cumbria, gets included as being in the North East, I don't know anyone who would call Carlisle V. York, or even Carlisle V. Newcastle a "derby". There's around 120 miles between Carlisle and York! Hardly a local derby. Imagine calling Hearts V. Celtic a derby! I have therefore taken away the NE sections, kept the Tyne-Wear derby. Is someone can come up with a local derby for Middlesbrough (Darlington) then feel free to add it. I'll get off my soapbox now! hedpeguyuk 21:22, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

I've added a "Tees" football derby. Middlesbrough V. Hartlepool and left the Tyne Wear derby. If any Hartlepool supporters/residents aren't happy then feel free to change it. But "North East" as a region is far too broad. York and Carlisle also need derbies added but I'm too tired to do it now! hedpeguyuk 21:33, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Manchester United vs Arsenal

Would their games be considered derbies? they are rivals and always have heated matches. any idea what the name of this Derby would be? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.114.129.111 (talk) 17:08, 19 June 2006‎ (UTC)

An inherent feature of a derby is the physical closeness of the teams. Since Manchester and London are not close to each other, games between their teams, no matter how fierce the rivalry is, cannot be considered a derby. Bob Palin 17:22, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

ok sounds good. lol — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.114.129.111 (talk) 19:42, 19 June 2006‎ (UTC)

Supposed tameness of Mets/Yankees Rivalry

Regular season games between the Mets and Yankees have only been played since 1997, but that development made the rivalry incredibly heated. Many fans of both teams (particulary those who were already Yankee fans in 1962 when the Mets were formed) had to pick sides when this series began. Add in the near-Subway (World) Series in 1999 and the 2000 World Series, and now the fans are always wild for these games. It's especially true now with both teams doing so well. Bwysock 18:58, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Rivalry?

Liverpool vs Nottingham Forest is not a derby game. I'm not even sure if it's been even much of a rivalry for 20 years. Am I wrong? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.53.186.119 (talk) 06:28, 11 September 2006‎ (UTC)

Not a derby - Liverpool v Everton is, but Liverpool v Forest is Nott! Australian Matt 04:40, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Edinburgh Derby "Catholic-Protestant" rivalry theory

This is absolute rubbish. It may have been the case 100 or so years ago but is nothing more than an inter-city rivalry now; Hibs have, in fact, a higher Protestant than Catholic fanbase. I, as well as many other Hibees and Jambos, would consider this an insult, comparing Hibs and Hearts to the bigots from Glasgow, thus I have removed it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.41.90.87 (talk) 18:24, 13 October 2006‎ (UTC)

I agree. There is absolutely no evidence that such a sectarian rivalry exists between Hearts and Hibs. Snowbound 01:08, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

"Falkirk Derby"

Falkirk v Dunfermline is listed as the "Falkirk Derby". Clearly its isn't, the Falkirk derby should be the East Stirlingshire v Falkirk game (listed as Stirlingshire derby, although neither are now in Stirlingshire!) However, as I was about to change this I realised I had no idea what to classify the Falkirk v Dunfermline game as. Clearly it is a typical "derby" match, mutual dislike etc but why? Any Pars or Bairns fans able to resolve this and give it its proper name? The best I can think of is "Central Scotland Derby" Caledonian Place 01:14, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Need to keep Rivalry and Derby seperate

Too much duplication! Kevlar67 00:26, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

yes! thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.162.163.129 (talk) 20:46, 26 February 2007‎ (UTC)

Kincardine derby — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.236.0.20 (talk) 04:08, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Real Madrid-Barca

Clearly their rivalry can't be here... --Howard the Duck 09:52, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Pronunciation

"correctly pronounced 'der-bee', but occasionally 'dar-bee' after the English city"

Is there anything to back up this statement? I believe dar-bee is a perfectly correct pronunciation of the word.

Yokofoxes 17:32, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Similarly, there are speakers of British English who pronounce the word as 'der-bee' (and not just in ignorance). I've never understood why - does anyone know?
Dbfirs (talk) 23:21, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Derby History

I have always had the feeling that the word Derby has more to do with Lord Derby than with the town Derby, the bit about the term being used in regard to a widness rugby game a couple of years before the Liverpool/Everton game would just underline that thought. Lord Derby is a local toff (no pun meant IE Everton) who's stately home is in Liverpool, Widness being a stones throw from L'pool also Lord Derbys pile being up that end on the East Lancs heading toward St Helens/Widness, the horse race is named after one of the earlier Lord Derby's also the Stanley cup (ice hockey) was originally given by one of the Lords of Derby, and by that I mean he actaully gave them the cup out of own expence as apposed to just presented it, Stanley being the family name of Lord Derby. So you have the local links, I assume that no one would argue with the fact the L'pool/Everton was that first football Derby, and the sporting links all point to the term being derived from Lord Derby, but I always wanted to know why, did he sponsor them or have some involement with orgaising the game? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yakacm (talk • contribs) 08:38, 15 October 2007‎ (UTC)

Another possible origin, suggested by the Widnes rugby report, is that since The Derby horse race was a sporting fixture that was of interest to people throughout the country, a "local Derby" was a Derby-type event but only of interest locally. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.125.210.74 (talk) 09:57, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Introduction: Too Long

Addressing the overly long introduction to the entry, is it possible to break this up into sections for "Introduction" (Paragraph 1), "Etymology" (Paragraphs 2-4), and some sort of "Use of the Term" (Paragraphs 5-8)? 121.132.186.37 (talk) 16:37, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

LOCAL DERBY in the CITY of DERBY

Being a local to Derby, I have to stand strong on the fact that the "Local Derby" originates from the Shrovetide football match between the two teams from the St Peters and All Saints churches in the city. I have made contact with the St Peters church and they have a historian of which confirmed this. I realise the term has little or no meaning within Derby now, but it does make more sense that the saying comes from a place which is actually called Derby. St Peters once printed a flyer with historical info about the church of which it was mentioned on there. Feel free to contact the church of St Peters who might be able to shine some more light on the subject, to claim it as there own they must have some facts http://www.stpetersderby.org.uk/ .Derbian (talk) 13:18, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Utter rubbish imo. It doesn't make sense at all, the Shrovetide match is in Ashborne not in Derby, if it were, it would be called an "Ashbourne" or a "Derbyshire" --MIR17 (talk) 19:35, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Regardless of the strength of Derby's claim, there's a big misunderstanding here. Yes, Shrovetide football continues to this day in Ashbourne, but the article as it stands, (and Derbian above), argue in reference not to that but the traditional Shrovetide match in Derby itself. This was, in its time, one of the biggest and most notorious Shrovetide contests, and continued until 1846, i.e. round about the time the "Derby match" term originates. I'm not saying it necessarily is the origin of the term, but it's at least plausible. What is certain is that the "it's not called an Ashbourne" response given by MIR17 above and by the link in the article (Which is not to the OED, despite what is claimed) is irrelevant as an answer to DERBY's claim. Jellyman (talk) 20:29, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Split article

Perhaps this article should be split, with a seperate List of local derbys created. It would make this page more navitigable.Lord Cornwallis (talk) 02:10, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Prague Derby

Does someone know where I can find a website for all the results of the Prague Derby since the introduction of professional football in Czechoslovakia/Czech Republic (1925)? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.86.111.20 (talk) 14:21, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Istanbul Derby

You can't say this derby has been notable "in recent years". It's older than El Clásico. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.168.204.101 (talk) 07:56, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Georgia

Why do we list this in Asia? The teams involved compete in European competitions, Georgia is a UEFA nation and it's wikipedia article describes it as a border state. Surely this belongs under Europe. Rexfan2 (talk) 08:23, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

What about Turkey? --84.62.192.162 (talk) 19:46, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Local Derby v Rivalry

I think some users are failing to appreciate the very specific nature of the term "local derby" or "derby" which is not (at least to my albeit un-researched knowledge) synonimous with "rivalry". Brazil v Italy and Barcelona v Real are not "local derbies". I do not think the inclusion of the word "generally" in the opening paragraph is very helpful either as it amounts to saying "local derbies are generally local" - there is no logic to that. Just my view and others are free to disagree, but I hope that some consensus can be achieved and the article amended as appropriate. 81.23.54.142 (talk) 04:43, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Italian derbies

I believe several derbies under the section covering Italy to be misplaced. None of the bottom 5 city derbies are between teams of the same city. Derby d'Italia is played by Juve and Inter, that is a Turin and a Milan based team. Derby del Sole is between Rome and Naples. Also, Bari and Lecce are different cities in Apulia, as are Naples, Bari and Palermo in southern, and Florence and Bologna in central Italy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.78.145.119 (talk) 11:35, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Thin those "Derbies" out!

Is the purpose here to list every town with two football clubs, or what? Is it to list every type of strong rivalry between sports clubs? IMHO there should be up to half a dozen examples, which might include Celtic v. Rangers, Inter v. Milan and Zamalek v. Al Ahly, but not some lesser stuff like Roma v. Lazio, or whatever happens in Malta. Maybe a sentence devising the diffrence between "Clásico" and Derby. Oalexander-En (talk) 23:04, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

This list is far too long and imaginative. The only entries that should be there are those supported by a source which uses the word "derby", or some clearly equivalent term, for the match or rivalry concerned. Editors should feel free to delete anything else. SamuelTheGhost (talk) 11:48, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

German derbies

Some content there is just ridiculous:

"Political Derby II – Eintracht Frankfurt vs Dynamo Dresden Though not a local derby, these teams represent opposite sides of Germany's political spectrum, with Eintracht Frankfurt representing the far left in Germany and Dynamo Dresden the extreme right."

What a nonsense.

Also, the term "Rheinhessen Derby" for Frankfurt v Kaiserslautern is absolutely wrong. None of the teams is located in the region called Rheinhessen.

Furthermore, I have never heard that Eintracht Frankfurt vs 1. FC Nürnberg has ever been called Mainderby, Mainderby II or is considered a derby at all that would be notable.

I wanted to discuss if there are objections before I modify / clear the content. -Lemmy- (talk) 22:26, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Syria

Anybody fancy taking a look at Syria, its a mess regions pipelinked instead of teams, football and basketball derbies mixed with no tag. I dont know where to start with it.Murry1975 (talk) 12:42, 31 January 2012 (UTC)