Talk:Lon Horiuchi

noindex

I see no Wikipedia article suggesting that noindex should be used for controversial articles, Wikipedia:NOINDEX_of_noticeboards not withstanding.

Also, this page is the top google hit for a search on Lon Horiuchi even today, so the stated reason for the edit seems ineffective.

TJIC (talk) 18:51, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

deletion question

What exactly IS the cause for deletion for this article? you can't just slap on a "deletion" box without giving a reason. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.180.106.151 (talk)

Well, you could take the time to read the deletion notice, which links to the reasoning and the deletion discussion. For your convenience, the rationale and ensuing discussion can be found here. MastCell ^Talk 04:47, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Not everyday somebody reportedly kills 2 persons and get's a jail free just because is a federal employee. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.126.10.233 (talk) 22:20, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Removal of Contextual Facts

Why do people keep removing the fact that the shot Mr. Horiuchi made on Vicki Weaver was taken while she was unarmed and holding her infant child? This context is crucial to understanding why manslaughter charges were brought against him (as opposed to if she'd been holding a gun, for example). Let us not forget that she was behind a door and Horiuchi literally didn't know what he was shooting at. Aren't snipers supposed to know what they're shooting at? They certainly taught us that at summer camp when I was a kid.

Fact from lede

I have removed a couple sentences from the lede per WP:BLP. I will remove the other unsourced sentence unless a reference to a reliable published source can be provided. Self-published websites are not reliable sources; professional media are sufficient. — Carl (CBM · talk) 17:51, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Similarly, per WP:BLP, court transcripts need to be used carefully. It's not OK to pull items out of court transcripts and highlight them unless those items have been highlighted by reliable secondary sources. I've pared back the court-transcript citations - in any case, the article should be based on what reliable secondary sources have to say, not on editorial selections from lengthy court transcripts. MastCell ^Talk 18:45, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

I'd love to see a neutral summary of the court transcripts, but agree that things like the "pancake" scene are just bizarre and out of place. Sherurcij ^{(Speaker for the Dead)} 20:10, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

The sentence about Soldier of Fortune has two problems. I don't doubt that he appeared in the magazine, though. The first problem is the reference, which is not a reliable source. The second is that the lack of explanation or context seems to give unue weight to his mere appearance, without explaining what was said or why he was included. How about a ref to the actual appearance in the magazine? — Carl (CBM · talk) 20:07, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

The fact that Outpost of Freedom hates Horiuchi is not enough reason to dispute using them as a reference for the fact he appeared in the magazine. If you can add better context, by all means please do so - but don't simply delete a neutral fact based on the fact its reference is not neutral. Sherurcij ^{(Speaker for the Dead)} 20:10, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

The fact is not neutral - it invites the reader to speculate on the purpose of his appearance, and is sourced to a clearly partisan site. Moreover, this entire sentence seems to be a trivia item, hardly relevant without further explanation. If you want to include it, we need to explain why he appeared, and have a reliable source. — Carl (CBM · talk) 20:12, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

My improvement to the ref was supposed to be switching to use a direct link to US News. I omitted the author's name by mistake. — Carl (CBM · talk) 20:35, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Agree with CBM. Why is the mere fact he was in the magazine important? It's not even verifiable. Which issues was he in? Was he clip art, a letter to the editor, advertising? This claim is sub-junk, and totally out of line for a BLP. Cool Hand Luke 02:32, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

WP:BLP

I've removed two items per WP:BLP. The first is the item on Horiuchi's children and their reported homeschooling. This pretty clearly falls under Wikipedia:Blp#Presumption_in_favor_of_privacy, and additionally seems entirely unrelated to any notability Horiuchi has. It's essentially a throwaway remark in a news article, and we've elevated it to part of the lead. I also removed the item sourced to Outpost of Freedom. The sourcing requirements are fairly strict for biographies of living people, and are laid out in Wikipedia:Blp#Sources. There is no way that Outpost of Freedom qualifies as a usable source for a biography of Horiuchi. MastCell ^Talk 21:30, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Image to be deleted

This has already been tagged. No source information was given, but it appears to be the same scan supposedly from Soldier of Fortune, thus is not even a reliable photo of him. I'm totally unimpressed with the rationales that were offered. Cool Hand Luke 02:45, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

In any case, we don't use nonfree images of living people for their infobox photos to identify living people. — Carl (CBM · talk) 02:56, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

waco evidence handling controversy

At Ruby Ridge, cartridge case evidence from the shooting 21 Aug 1992 between the Weavers and the US Marshals at the "Y" in the trails was tagged, photographed and bagged, secured and removed from the crime scene by FBI crime scene investigators as soon as FBI secured the "Y" and days before the Weavers surrendered.

At Waco, cartridge case evidence from the shooting 28 Feb 1993 by the BATF snipers was left in the sniper nest to 19 Apr 1993 when Horiuchi occupied the same sniper nest carrying the same caliber sniper rifle on 19 Apr 93 as fired by the ATF snipers on 28 Feb 93 (7.62x51mm/.308 Win). The cartridge case evidence at the sniper nest was secured by the Texas Rangers after 19 Apr 1993.

Questions would not have been raised about Horiuchi possibly firing 19 Apr 93 if cartridge case evidence from 28 Feb 93 had been secured and removed from the sniper nest. Naaman Brown (talk) 11:28, 19 October 2009 (UTC)