Talk:Lorenzo Borghese

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Use his title?[edit]

  • Isn't a prince referred to by his title, then his first name? The article inconsistently refers to him as 'Prince Borghese' and 'Prince Lorenzo', shouldn't it be one or the other? 17:41, 2 November 2006‎ User:205.158.160.89

Depends on the situation, though British Monarchy rule are more stringent. The borghese family title is 'honorary' as his family was titled by the Pope, rather than being of royal blood - of the royal ruling class: nobility not royalty.

Its proper to address him as "Prince Lorenzo", "Prince Lorenzo Borghese" and at official or state functions he may be announced as "The Prince, Lorenzo Borghese".

As he has a brother the use of "Prince Borghese" would not be proper; as in thise case there are several Prince Borgheses, including his borther and father. (Think "Prince Windsor of England"...as Andrew, Edward, Charles, William etc..are all "Princes" they are referred by their title and first; or title and full name, not title and surname ie Prince Windsor)

The girls on the show are confusing Royalty with titled people. They will not become HRH Princess____ (HRH = Her Royal Highness) as with Royalty. They are not becoming a Princess with castle and staff, ruling over the people. They wont "rule", have subjects, and the title is essentially just that, a title of little effective value. Though for some contestants clearly more of an "affected" value.

European Titles are not uncommon. See harrods.com and when you sign up, rather than the few US prefix defaults of "Mr. Ms. Mrs. Dr."; there are dozens of prefixes including Prince Princess Duke Duchess, Bishop, etc etc Starburster 02:48, 28 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You are in fact utterly wrong, this is the American way of referring to nobility. It is only common to refer to people by titles and first names when they are royalty - the rest often prefers to be referred to by their full names, unless they are using their titles for some cause or end up in the tabloids. -- chsf 19:21 CET, 2007-06-13

The Bachelor[edit]

Is it just me, or does the end of the biography section just sound like a synopsis of the final episode of The Bachelor? This really needs fixed by someone who knows more about him and has references. Sleepsong (talk) 17:38, 25 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Italian titles of Nobility do not exist[edit]

I object to the title of prince for this individual since Italy does not recognize princes anymore. I am certain the Vatican does not grant hereditary princely titles (anymore), but I do not know if they are awarded for actions. I removed large section on ancestry, since the article already links to the Borghese family. Rococo1700 (talk) 02:53, 8 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Troubling edit by Boardroom09 on family ancestry[edit]

The edit re-added the Borghese family history by stating: I manage this page for Mr. Borghese. He would like to make sure that his family history is current on his page and does not want me to manage all other pages referring to his family's history so please leave it on this page.

First of all, Wikipedia does not care much at all about what Mr Borghese wants, as long as the information in the entry is truthful. Thank you for relaying his wishes, but you need to find other reasons to insert this information in the article.

Second, I do not think Wikipedia wishes for entries in encyclopedia to be autobiographic. I agree that Mr Borghese can and should point out inaccuracies or falsehoods in the article. But that is not the issue at hand.

While he may be a descendant of the Borghese family, and that is worth including in his article, all the great achievements in the world by his ancestors do not add to Mr Borghese's achievements or his biography. It would be a falsehood or inaccuracy to state that. You can add an external reference to the line that states member of the prominent noble Borghese family, and have that reference extoll the wonders of the Borghese and Napoleon. Or just leave the link to the Borghese family, and those with interest pursue the fact. I am hesitant to even call this a "noble family" at present, since Under the Italian Constitution adopted in 1948, titles of nobility are not legally recognised.

Please, if you wish to revert again for the reasons you expressed, then we should seek mediation or input by other external editorsRococo1700 (talk) 01:27, 18 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I deleted the ancestry section to Mr Borghese. I have no objection to stating his is linked to the Borghese family. But the glories/infamies of the Borghese family have little bearing on Mr Borghese himself. In addition, he is a self-styled prince, since Under the Italian Constitution adopted in 1948, titles of nobility are not legally recognised. This bit of peackockery has no place in Wikipedia. If he is prince, then I am the Duke of Earl.

I have stated my objections in this talk page repeatedly to Boardroom, and because he chooses to ignore them, I have tagged the article as lacking neutrality.Rococo1700 (talk) 22:40, 16 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I have reverted the edits by Boardroom9 as per above, and now added a dispute notice at Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard.Rococo1700 (talk) 15:00, 17 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Response to Troubling Edit Rococo1700[edit]

In response to your edit Wikipedia has an Ancestry Section for the purpose to include one's Ancestry. Secondly, the nobility titles are actually still in existence and the documents can be found in Rome. If the titles truly didn't exist Prince Borghese's Grandmother, Princess Marcella Borghese, could not have named her cosmetic brand using her title when she launched it in 1958 with the permission of the Pope. The title has nothing to do with Italy but rather the Vatican Church which still recognizes Papal titles.

You are wrong. See Papal nobility. I quote: With Paul VI, who responded in Pontificalis Domus to the formal Christmas message of the patriciate by declaring that the papal nobility would no longer be a constituent body in the papal court, the custom of conferring noble titles such as Count, Marquis, Duke or Prince essentially disappeared. In other words, Princess Marcella Borghese, may have been a princess in her day, but Lorenzo is not. Again, the ancestry section is not required in a live person's biography. It is ok to link to his ancestry, but a whole section about other people's lives is not relevant.Rococo1700 (talk) 15:28, 17 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]


You are wrong. If this were true, once again, Princess Marcella Borghese would have had her title taken away from her before launching her cosmetic's line in 1958 (with the blessing of the Pope). It is true that the Pope can no longer provide families with titles, but the titles in existence remained. The titles "essentially disappeared" because they were no longer granted and some family lines disappeared. The titles are documented in Rome (Prince Borghese's side of the family received 5 titles). I appreciate you looking into this matter and trying to keep pages accurate. Regarding the ancestry section i was unaware but thank you for the explanation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Boardroom09 (talk • contribs) 15:41, 17 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The Pontificalis Domus was emitted in 1968, before Lorenzo's birth. He thus is not recognized as a prince by any government. Again when you say documented in Rome; what official document presently can you cite that documents Mr Borghese as a prince? Again he may descend from people who were granted titles, but that does not carry official imprimatur today. There is almost certainly hereditary pretenders to multiple thrones in Europe (Jacobites, Carlist, etc), (but alas), it is a fading arcane echo of self-promotion for many.Rococo1700 (talk) 17:13, 17 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There are numerous offices in Italy that document this (in Florence and Rome). The Office of Araldica. You can leave this Wikipedia page the way it is. I spoke to the family and they are fine with the changes you made and actually wanted to thank you for monitoring it. Again, i am not familiar with the way Wikipedia works and appreciate the information you shared. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Boardroom09 (talk • contribs) 18:19, 17 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Noteworthiness[edit]

Removed a bunch of unsourced stuff for YEARS (per tags too). If this doesn't mean WP standards, may have to go to.Lihaas (talk) 18:22, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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