Talk:Ludwig Mies van der Rohe
|Ludwig Mies van der Rohe has been listed as a level-4 vital article in People. If you can improve it, please do. This article has been rated as C-Class.|
|This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:|
- 1 IIT
- 2 Category:Nazi architecture
- 3 Farnsworth house
- 4 farnsworth flooding
- 5 Categorization
- 6 Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial Library
- 7 Aphorisms
- 8 POV tag - Hagiography
- 9 Building list
- 10 Fair use rationale for Image:Toronto Dominion Centre logo.gif
- 11 German Pronunciation
- 12 Canadian works outside the Toronto-Montreal corridor?
- 13 Mies' Last Work?
- 14 Death
- 15 Wrong image captions
- 16 File:Ludwig Mies van der Rohe.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion
- 17 refimprove
- 18 Google doodle
- 19 Quote by Loos
- 20 Important names for modern architecture were added by IP 18.104.22.168
Has anyone here ever met an IIT student? Architects treat their campus like a little bit of heaven, but IIT students, who actually have to use the place, hate it.
- It's gotten better. The "bad things" that have been corrected were mostly due to the presence of the Green Line completely bisecting the campus. The new student center and dorms have helped that a little bit. I think if this campus was on the far north side by Evanston instead of on the south side across from Comiskey (as has been considered in the past), it wouldn't get nearly as bad a rap. ---Rob 18:23, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
- I am a current IIT student. It's true, the engineers hate it. I don't think they really hate the architecture, but most don't see what's so special about it. Rather, IIT has never done too great a job of keeping the buildings up, and so the original look and feel Mies intended, that would make the campus a beautiful place to be, are not really present. But...the new buildings have helped a lot, and the recent restorations of some of the Mies campus (ongoing) is helping to bring some of that beauty back. As an architecture student, yes, we too, treat it like a little piece of heaven, at least those of us that have some inkling of how special it is. --laldm 01:37, 28 June 2006
Removed aas I think it's wrong. Any-one knows better, please put it back. Rich Farmbrough
Ludwig worked for part of his career under the Nazi's, so the 'Category:Nazi architecture' has been placed back. Endurance 13:28, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
Is an architect who worked in the United States during the reign of George Bush to have his architecture called "Republican Architecture"? There is no logic to that. Mies was a-political and did nothing to support either the Nazis or any American administrations. "Nazi Architecture" is a specific term referring to Hitlers imperial classical style, which Mies deplored.
- Agreed - in 1933 Mies tried to appease the Nazi hostility to the Bauhaus and moved it to Berlin - but he and the other masters voluntarily disbanded it shortly afterwards. There's no way Mies is an Albert Speer, the Nazi's deplored modernism as Degenerate Art.--Mcginnly | Natter 10:24, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
were you aware that Dr Farnsworth sewed Mies over the house he had designed for her. She said it was unliveable, as it acted like a greenhouse. She lost, but built a big pergola onto it much to the horror of mies and his fan club.(the pergola has since been removed)
Mies sued Edith for non-payment of construction costs (he was both architect and general contractor). He won the suit and she was required to pay. She had counter-sued Mies for malpractice in the design of the house but she lost that case. The story is her affections for Mies were not returned, and their relationship soured, resulting in much unhappiness for them both, and the very bitter lawsuits. The bronze screen enclosure of the porch was actually designed by Mies to keep insects out, but installed by another architect after the lawsuits began. The second owner, Palumbo, removed the screens and later added air conditioning to deal with the insects. There were many misrepresentations made in the poular press during the lawsuit, as there was much controversy about modern architecture for residential buildings. Some hate it and some love it. Edith said she hated it but used it for many years, from 1951 till 1972. Palumbo adored the house. I think the actual market value of 7.5 million established at the 2003 public auction of the house set a record for $ per square foot for a house. Miesling 6-16-06
The major Farnsworth floods occured in 1956 and 1996, damaging the Primavera wood core both times and breaking glass the second time. The entire core and wardrobe cabinet was rebuilt using new veneers in 1996. The 1996 restoration updated many aging components and the building was repainted. Primavera is still readily available at veneer dealers, and is grown in Mexico and other Central American countries. The wardrobe is teak. Neither are on an endangered species list. The edits made on this subject are innaccurate and will be removed unless factual information is submitted to contradict the above. Miesling 6-16-06
Re: Architects and their nationality in Classification I think it is much more important that the architect appear first and foremost as an Architect, and secondarily as a german or american architect. If you look at the list of Architects, the most prominent ones are missing. This is plain silly. Do I have to know the nationality of an architect to find him ? I shouldn't have to. If he's an architect, he should be in that classification, period. He can also be classified as a german architect, etc., but the main classification is paramount. Intersofia 14:46, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial Library
I removed the following paragraph:
One of the best and last examples of van der Rohe's architectural roots is the Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial Library in Washington, DC. This uniquely designed main branch of the United States capital's public library system, is the only Ludwig Mies van der Rohe structure in the District of Columbia. The District's M. L. King Jr. main public library is also one of van der Rohe's last major designs and architectual tributes before his death. There is one proposal to demolish the building for condominium apartments or office space during or after 2007. Concerned District of Columbia residents are fighting to stop potential developer demolition and a proposal before the DC Council. Local DC activists and residents hope to retain the building's architectural and historical integrity, and public library purpose, at its current and very accessible downtown location. One popular idea among diverse native Washingtonians, newer residents, cultural preservationists, environmentalists, fiscal policy critics and political activists is to convert the M. L. King Jr. library's large open main floor into a major retail bookstore/café and public performance space, with the basement and upper three floors becoming a 21st century digital, research and lending library, plus a landscaped rooftop reading garden — honoring the intent of van der Rohe's original adaptable architectural space design. The Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial Library is a unique and modern contrast to the typical classical building designs dominating America's capital city — and truly consistent with Ludwig van der Rohe's architectural personality, long term functionality, contemporary spirit, user-friendly purpose, and internationally acclaimed designs. 
It was under the 'Early Career' section, and being that it was his last project it hardly belongs there. It also is basicly link spam for the Library and activists trying to stop the demolition of the Library. While I can sympathize with people who do not want this gem to be torn down, this information belongs, if anywhere, on the aritlce for Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial Library. — Linnwood 01:43, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
This sentence: "Famous for his poetic aphorisms 'Less is More' and 'God is in the details'..." seems to imply that these quotations originated from Ludwig Mies van der Rohe. But the latter quotation, while adopted by Ludwig, seems actually attributed to Le Corbusier.--Will.i.am 18:16, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
POV tag - Hagiography
This is a hagiography that simply repeats the official line of the pro-modernist tendency without any attempt at objectivity. The intense unpopularity of his work among many people is not mentioned at all. Wimstead 14:05, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
- Then mention it. You realize this is the encyclopedia that anyone can edit, don't you? 22.214.171.124 20:25, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
- Citing sources. "Many people" won't do. --Concrete Cowboy 12:29, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
"Then mention it. You realize this is the encyclopedia that anyone can edit, don't you?" - that's nonsense. The hagiographers ("editors", aka Wiki clique) will remove it, just as they remove e.g. any mention of St Pete Seeger's current support for the antisemitic BDS movement.
Mies van der Rohe bears huge responsibility for much of the horrors of post-WW2 architecture, which tore out the hearts of many ancient European cities in the name of so-called 'modernity' and 'progress', in fact nothing but trendy and fashionable stupidity. You only have to look at some of the photographs in the article - rectangular boxes with nil soul or imagination - to realise that. Assuming, of course, that you have eyes in your head and a minimum of imagination and sensitivity. This is not just my view (and I used to be an architectural photographer), but the view of many serious architectural historians. The article needs to present this view. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 21:59, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
It is entirely true that any person, man-made object or idea will have detractors. That doesn't mean every article must have a section for detractors to rant against the person, object, or idea. Wikipedia allows for that, but what would be the point if we all already know there is at least one detractor for every subject? Yes, Users typically do remove material if it has no basis in fact. A feeling or dislike is not a relevant fact unless you could cite some specific and credible survey collected votes about how a large group of people felt about a person, object, or idea. If you have some useful factual contributions to make, feel free to add a section. Cite and quote a "serious architectural historian", as I'm sure there are some, or identify a specific city where a building designed by Mies tore the heart out a center.--User:Miesling April 2 2013 —Preceding undated comment added 16:52, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
The University of Chicago claims that their School of Social Services Administration was also built by van der Rohe (in 1965): http://www.ssa.uchicago.edu/aboutssa/history/tour1a.shtml -- Tfkw (talk) 17:41, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
- No, the U. of C. claims that their SSA building was designed by Mies. Architects don't build buildings, they design them. Rick lightburn (talk) 21:49, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
Fair use rationale for Image:Toronto Dominion Centre logo.gif
Image:Toronto Dominion Centre logo.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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The German pronunciation given at the beginning of the article represents a distinct English accent. A correct way to pronounce it in standard German would be
[ˈluːtvɪç miːs fan deːɐ̯ ˈʁoːə]
- And, all in all, I'm pretty sure there's a WP guideline endorsing IPA over
- Pronounced "Lood-wig mees (rhymes with peace) van durr row" in America, "lood-vikh Meez fun durr raw-eh" in Germany
- So somebody who knows how to enter IPA in a WP article, please do rephrase. 188.8.131.52 (talk) 05:32, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
A German pronunciation would be appropriate for the German language version of the article (although the s is indeed pronounced like a z), but in America, his name is pronounced differently, as is quite common with many names. The English language version should pronounce it in the American usage. However, an additional pronunciation clearly stating it as a German pronunciation would be informative, since Mies practiced architecture there before he became an American citizen, and some Americans like to pronounce it in the German manner. Miesling (talk) 17:11, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
Canadian works outside the Toronto-Montreal corridor?
Hello, just wondering if he designed any buildings outside the Upper Canada / Lower Canada urban corridor surrounding Toronto-Montreal? Perhaps Winnipeg or Vancouver? Thank you.
--Atikokan (talk) 15:19, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
Mies' Last Work?
Hey Guys. I just wanted to point out that in this article, Neue Nationalgalerie is cited as the last work of Mies; however the Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial Library page would contradict this statement and I believe that the MLK center actually is the last work of Mies; it was built (finished?) about 4 years after the Neue Nationalgalerie according to their respective wiki pages, although Mies had passed away at that time. I think the Mies article might be trying to say the Neue Nationalgalerie was the last building completed while he was still alive...some clearing up on this issue would be helpful. Thomaszi (talk) 22:51, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
Why tag something as `citation needed', when proof is provided in the form of a picture? Is it necessary to prove that MvdR was cremated when there is a picture of a burialsite too small for a regular coffin? Or was he buried vertically? (184.108.40.206 (talk) 19:35, 18 January 2011 (UTC)) Xavier
Two photos of the TD Centre have a caption using the word "podium". I am no student of architecture, but doesn't a podium have something resting upon it? I think the low building in the photos is correctly described as the banking pavilion. The wikipedia article on the TD Centre refers to the building as the banking pavilion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto-Dominion_Centre#Pavilion_and_shopping_concourse Blackdog824 (talk) 15:08, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for the hint: the image was even duplicated and seems to be a result of a careless edit. I did some fixes. --Elekhh (talk) 20:46, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
File:Ludwig Mies van der Rohe.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion
An image used in this article, File:Ludwig Mies van der Rohe.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion for the following reason: Wikipedia files with no non-free use rationale as of 3 December 2011
Don't panic; you should have time to contest the deletion (although please review deletion guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.
Could somebody add the "refimprove" tag to this article (or explain why inline citations wouldn't be necessary as with any other Wikipedia article)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 06:03, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
- That probably wouldn't be okay given the strict non-free content criteria. You could add a mention to the text that he was selected as a google doodle, but my guess is that it would be deleted as trivia eventually... Calliopejen1 (talk) 23:00, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
Quote by Loos
The quote by Loos is a translation of an essay title or phrase, which, to my knowledge, is commonly misquoted - as far as I know, the original meant "ornament and crime" (Ornament und Verbrechen). Hence, the entire sentence would be wrong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 11:36, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
You are correct about the quotation, Loos associated crime and ornament but didn't say ornament is crime. Loos was communicating the idea that ornament should be separate from architecture, unlike the Beaux Arts philosophy of integrating all the many arts under the overall control of the master architect. Loos had the highest respect for the artist, and felt he should be autonomous, not subject to the architects control, for the betterment of cultural development. He meant that it is a wrong for an architect to use art as architectural ornament. Historian Stanford Anderson wrote a fine paper on this subject: "The Legacy of German Neoclassicism and Biedermeier". I will reword the sentence. Thanks for the correction. Miesling (talk) 17:32, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
Important names for modern architecture were added by IP 22.214.171.124
This IP added very important names for modern architecture, and the fact they were influenced by Mies is pretty much obvious, just from the existing WP links. I think these links as influences should be readded. Maybe a special section on Mies' influence on Modern Brazilian Architecture could be added by the IP, before the links are re-added? warshy¥¥ 19:22, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
- I reverted those edits per MOS:INFOBOX as the purpose of an infobox is "to summarize key facts in the article in which it appears. The less information it contains, the more effectively it serves that purpose, allowing readers to identify key facts at a glance." There are surely thousands of architects influenced by Mies, so listing a selection without any explanation and reference is not improving the article. I agree that a section on Mies's influence and legacy (not only in Brazil) would be great to have. --ELEKHHT 22:59, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
In the case of architecture, the Infobox fields of "Influences" and "Influenced" are, in my view, very useful, and should be used whenever possible. I just became aware there are long debates in different WP projects about the usefulness of Infoboxes. In any case, as I said, in the case of Architecture, they seem to me very useful, especially these two fields I am referring to. I wish the IP, who had added those useful links, would have something to say on the matter of Mies' influences on Modern Architecture, and how it could be added to the article.warshy¥¥ 12:32, 21 May 2013 (UTC)