Talk:Lust murder

"piquerism" seems to be a questionable term, removing for now. Whilst there are a number of Google hits, many from copies of this article, the word does not appear in the New Oxford Dictionary of English, nor in Google's online dictionary or any other authorritative source I can find so far. There is also a discussion on the validity of this term at http://www.apa.org/monitor/julaug03/jn.html, which states, among other things:

The U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals for the Second District took issue with the purportedly expert testimony, stating that "It is now clear that the expert's qualifications were largely perjured, and that the syndrome, dubbed 'piquerism' is referenced nowhere but in a true-crime paperback."

-- The Anome 10:44, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Piquerism is a very common term used within the field by professionals both modern and historical and is in several textbooks. What idiot came up with that? Dr. Robert Keppel, et. al., use the term quite frequently in the The Journal of Offender Profiling when discussing lust murder, and he's about as qualified expert as there comes in these things. HOLY MOLY what goofballs came up with the idea it isn;t real? YIKES they are clueless. 172.129.223.71 14:33, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

the murder in the hunchback of notre dame

was frollo's murder of phoebus lust murder, don't you think?

Untitled

"A lust murder begins with the obsessive compulsions of the offender." This is inaccurate -- wanting to commit lust murder has nothing to do with OCD (which the words "obsessive compulsions" link to). Eilicea 21:49, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

This is absolutely true - I removed the link and changed it to simply "obsessions." 69.118.25.126 18:00, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Citations,anyone?```` —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.125.130.246 (talk) 15:58, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Not to offend whoever wrote this, but I've been doing a lot of reading about this in a serial murder class and for a research paper on why people murder children (males for lustful reasons often).

A couple of problems I see here:

This paragraph doesn't have very good flow to it. It's rather confusing and reads awkwardly.

"It has been said that a lust murder begins with the obsessions of the offender. Generally, they have a sexual obsession with their victims, and organized lust murderers may stalk their victims for weeks or months before the actual killing. It has been cited numerous times that the object of obsession is a victim who fits the fantasy criteria of the offender, as opposed to a specific person. The signature component of the crime, that which names it a lust murder, is the killer acting out their fantasies with their victims and the bodies of those victims. Lust murder is the most common feature in the criminal careers of serial killers."

Secondly, you can't just say "it has been said that" or "it has been cited numerous times that" without saying WHO is saying or citing it.

Thirdly, lust killers don't kill because of obsessions. They kill because of fantasies that involve and IVT (Ideal Victim Type). An offender that displays any kind of paraphilic behavior might be suffering from impulse control disorders or obsessive compulsive disorder, but it is not specific to lust killers. I've changed the page to reflect this and cited Ronald Holmes and Steven Holmes in the reference section.

You did mention signatures, but a signature is not "the killer acting out their fantasies with their victims...". A signature is what that offender leaves behind as his or her trademark of the crime they have commited. For example, and offender who leaves the letter "X" carved on all of his victims or takes out their eyeballs is leaving a signature. It's the physical "calling card" left behind that tells the world "I did this crime" and often allows victims to be connected to one offender. If someone wants to add the idea of signatures back into the article feel free. I might have some time later to come back and add more info on this topic in. Hickey, Eric (2010). Serial Murderers and Their Victims (5th edition). Belmont, CA: Wadsworth. pp. 164-167. ISBN 978-0-495-60081-7. </ref>Crjs452 (talk) 21:40, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

-- Hawksfan12: I think when you added your section you inadvertently deleted my citation of Holmes and Holmes so that you could use it. I have added it back to my paragraph as that is where I cited my information from. Please try to be careful not to delete other people's valid citations. Thank you.Crjs452 (talk) 06:57, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Ted Bundy and Ed Gein

While Bundy raped his victims often, he was not motivated by sex. He sought to dominate and control his victims and the sexual aspect of his murders was merely another way of having power over them. I have removed the Ted Bundy link from the bottom.

Also, Ed Gein was not motivated by sex or lust but by the desire to return his mother to life. Gein's link has been removed. GSMR (talk) 20:40, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Synonymity?

"Lust murder is synonymous with the paraphilic term erotophonophilia which is sexual arousal or gratification contingent on the death of a human being."

A paraphilia is a statement about a sexual attraction and not a sexual action as far as I know. Maybe the wording should be changed to "affiliated" or something similar. Also, can terms be paraphilic? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.173.157.109 (talk) 00:51, 6 June 2010 (UTC)