Talk:Madurai

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MADURAI METRO POPULATION IS NEARLY 2012000 BUT CITY POPULATION IS ONLY 1240000.....

Contents

Badly written article[edit]

There are 3 things that make it so. (1) Too few references (2) The authors non neutral viewpoint....Like in the people section "The people of Madurai are amicable, hospitable, and deeply respect and value their traditions. " These kind of sentences DO NOT belong in an encyclopedia. This pattern is repeated in the entire article. Another example is in the "present problem" section, where the author wrote "The elite and professionals who ought to guide their fellow citizens into the new economy shrug away from their responsibilities, and worse, move to other cities looking for greener pastures and settle down there" I would like to remind the author that this is an encyclopedia not an opinion essay on what some one OUGHT to do. 71.174.89.104 (talk) 18:23, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

General Standards[edit]

The whole article suffers from very poor grammar, irrelevant information, and a bit of Vandalism. (What's about the salem thing?) I've started the process of cleaning it up and am halfway through the History part. Hopefully I'll finish it soon.

If you have any ideas, let's discuss.

Origin of Name[edit]

Enthusiasm should not lead to distortion of history. Madurai was always known as Madhura. It was Tamilized as Madurai. It is preposterous to claim that the name evolved from Marudhai.

  • Any idea if the Madurai bench is a circuit bench or a permanent bench? -- Sundar (talk · contribs) 06:35, Apr 4, 2005 (UTC)
As far as my knowledge goes, it's a permanent bench. Refer to http://www.tn.gov.in/policynotes/admn_of_justice.htm. But I'm still not sure of the number of districts under Madurai jurisdiction.. 12, 14 or 16? ~elviajero (talk · contribs)

Per this it is 12. Also, the jurisdiction question is interesting. Because, by virtue of being benches of the high court both the Chennai bench and Madurai bench must have jurisdiction all over Tamil nadu. But, the registry will take care that the cases from these regions alone are posted to the Madurai bench. So, perhaps an emergency case may be taken up by either bench. -- Sundar (talk · contribs) 04:44, Apr 5, 2005 (UTC)

Update. Per this it is 13. -- Sundar (talk · contribs) 04:50, Apr 5, 2005 (UTC)

Sundar,

Appreciating your contributions. Good work.

//Madurai was always known as Madhura//

  - Only North people called it like that

//preposterous to claim that the name evolved from Marudhai//

  - There is nothing preposterous. This is also a claim. There is 50% chance. As per Tamil Literature, Marutham is a type of "Thinai". So, we can add this claim in the article.

Nobody knows about the exact reason for the name "Madurai" as it is not a recently-built city.

Even before 2500 years, madurai was mentioned in literatures.( It could have been someother madurai near seashore. )

We can include about the Old Madurai also, Which hosted Mudal, Irandam Thamizh sangams. References are there in Sangam Literatures. Thanking you once again.

-- Sathish

It was never Madhura. It was always Madurai. This is an ancient city linked to civilization. It has been Madurai since then. Howcome, someone is claiming it to be Madhura? Don't mix up Madhura with Madurai. Madurai has always been Madurai.

By the way, what is there to Tamilize a city in Tamil Nadu?


—Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.145.159.116 (talk) 10:21, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

De Morgan[edit]

Wow! I didn't know De Morgan (remember De Morgan's theorems?!) was born in Madurai. Many thanks to whoever added this piece of info!! ~elviajero (talk · contribs)

Notable people[edit]

I've removed a couple of names from the list of notable people born in Madurai. I've also removed external links to two Telugu pages and Sourashtra college since I don't think they are relevant to this topic for the following reasons.

I'm in principle opposed to such lists in an article about places.
  • We need to talk about the place and not about individuals
  • Notability is subjective
  • It is tough to determine the "native placefor someone. For example, Kamal Hassan was listed in the Chennai article, whereas he was born in Paramakudi.
  • These lists tend to be very long and if at all, belong to separate articles of themselves

-- Sundar \talk \contribs July 8, 2005 05:15 (UTC)

Population figures[edit]

It's mentioned that Sourashtrians make up for about 20-30% of Madurai's population. I think they do, but in the absence of any official figures to substantiate this claim, it's best to say that they maintain a significant presence in the city and not give any numbers. Do let me know if you disagree. ~elviajero (talk · contribs), Jul 8, 2005

Being a Maduraiite, I feel that the population of Sourashtrians will be around 20% in Madurai City. Any way, we can't put any figures without a citable reference. -- Sundar \talk \contribs July 8, 2005 05:15 (UTC)

External links[edit]

Some anonymous user had re-inserted the external link to Telugu Association of North America (Looks like someone is trying to promote their website by adding a link in here, which is not right). I've removed it as I don't think it's relevant to this article. Sure, Telugu is a great language, and Madurai may have a minority Telugu speaking population, but it's not appropriate to have this link, and for that matter, any language related links on this page. The focus should be on the place, not on the languages spoken there. ~elviajero (talk · contribs), Jul 9, 2005

You're right in reverting the insertion. -- Sundar \talk \contribs 05:50, July 11, 2005 (UTC)

Someone has re-inserted the Telugu Association of North America link, again. I've reverted the insertion again, but I sure do think this guy is going to put it back after a few days. This person has also added this link in Coimbatore, Tanjore and Chennai pages. ~elviajero (talk · contribs), Jul 17, 2005


It is certainly not appropriate to have a link to an association dealing with Telugu people in USA. However, I would like to point out that the glorious contribution of Telugu Nayaks was deliberately downplayed in the article. All Madurai people should remember that but for Viswanatha Nayak and Tirumala Nayak, the present day Madurai would have been bereft of its great temples and some other places of worship present their place.

Image copyright[edit]

Elviajero, can you please update the image with it's copyright status? The referenced site seems to suggest that the photo might not be released under any of the licenses that would allow us to use it. Refer to WP:IUP for more information. Calvinkrishy 09:18, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)

The Madurai of the Sangam Era[edit]

It'll be interesting if someone can fish information about Madurai of the Sangam era and the exact manner in which it was burnt as described in the Silappadikaram. I am doing some amateur look at records and geological information, which points out to a possible minor volcanic eruption in the 3rd Century BCE. I still need to get hard evidence, but I want to know if anyone else has a similar hypothesis in relation to its destruction. There is a definite record of what is interpreted as a Tsunami occuring after the burning indicating some geological (seismic?) event. --Beta 17:19, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

OTOH, I only remember that Kannagi cut off her left breast and threw at Madurai to initiate a devastating fire. But, your hypothesis seems interesting. Let me see if I get something. -- Sundar \talk \contribs 03:44, September 6, 2005 (UTC)

Girls Education in Madurai[edit]

I have removed some reference to school education for girls. Since I was born in Madurai, and I have been living here in Madurai for the past 35 years, I know Madurai very well. There are 3 exclusive women colleges and hundreds of Girls schools. Can any body get a seat for a relative girl of mine this year. I think the writer has worn some colored glasses. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.11.89.207 (talkcontribs)

Yes. Much of that section is personal opinion. The article needs to be written in an encyclopedic manner. -- Sundar \talk \contribs 12:18, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Education section[edit]

I think this section currently is just listing schools in Madurai. This is not what the section is supposed to be. We need to cut it down to only those that are "noteworthy" either by age or for some other reason. It would be great if someone familiar with Madurai can do the edits or at least provide the information in this talk page. ɤіɡʍаɦɤʘʟʟ 21:58, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Examples of local colleges, however, are very useful for overseas i.e. non-Indian readers, in understanding the current Indian technology/globalization miracle, to which they are key. So I have added a link as-suggested, to the Sourastra example, and left it in: by seeing and exploring such a site, an overseas user can begin to appreciate the great depth of the social experiment now under way -- a mere note that "there are a lot of colleges" doesn't say enough, every place has "a lot of colleges". --Kessler (talk) 11:07, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Irrelevent message[edit]

"At the time of the 2001 census it was the second largest city in the state of Tamil Nadu after Chennai." -- this message is totally irrelevent. What is necessity of writing old statistic ? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 59.92.103.93 (talk) 09:20, 26 April 2007 (UTC).

Fair use rationale for Image:Tnlogo.png[edit]

Nuvola apps important.svg

Image:Tnlogo.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 04:58, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

inconsistent data[edit]

In the geography section:

Madurai, with an area of 52 km² (now extended up to 130 km²)[3] is located at 9.93° N 78.12° E.[4] It has an average elevation of 101 meters above Mean Sea Level.


In the Infobox:

Area:109 km² (42 sq mi) Elevation: 8 m (26 ft) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tcp-ip (talkcontribs) 19:27, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Population Decline[edit]

I expect the population "decline" indicated in the chart here in fact was growth but suburban sprawl -- small de-population of the traditional center perhaps as the urban area expanded. So the heading is misleading: I suggest "trends" instead, with an explanation of the regional expansion -- someone should confirm this, though. --Kessler (talk) 04:22, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

image[edit]

please don't keep images centre aligned that too expanded to 500px. Right aligned with 160-180px gives better look to the article.-wasifwasif —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wasifwasif (talkcontribs) 10:10, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Vadamalian hospital[edit]

Please provide the address —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.199.131.9 (talk) 08:28, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

St. Mary's Church photo please[edit]

Adding a photo - picture of St. Mary's church, Victoria bridge, Vaigai River, Madura Coats will bring Madurai live on the web —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.92.55.173 (talk) 17:44, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

i added a photo of St.Marys cathedral. but was deleted due to license issues. I have no idea about where to get the licensed image of St.Mary's church.-wasifwasif

Politics-- can avoid please[edit]

A new section POLITICS has been created in Madurai with names of number of political parties. this will lead to number of edit conflicts by the supporters of each party. In my view, Names of constituencis along with the populatio and names of representatives alone will do. suggestions please. -- wasifwasif

Madurai - 2nd largest or 3rd?[edit]

Hi, There are some repeated edits regarding Madurai's place in the list of Largest city in tamilnadu. It is mentioned with some link as second, immediately it gets edited as third after Chennai and coimbatore. Kindly conclude this issue with some valid references and statistical data. --wsifwasif

secon largest from when?[edit]

Wasif,

I have a problem with the phrase "from its origin". Does it mean from the origin of the city of madurai or the orgin of Tamil country/state of Tamil Nadu/Madras Presidency etc?.

  • 1) If we take it by "from origin of the city of madurai", we do not know for sure if it was second largest always. It could have been the largest during sangam age or during the 8-13 Centuries. I believe it would have the largest during the second pandyan empire (1216-1308 CE).
  • 2) If we take it as the "origin of state", the question which state (Ancient Tamilagam/Madras Presidency/Tamil Nadu) arises.

It is for this reason i removed the "from its origin" in your edit. We only know the populations of all cities since the 1871 census. We need to make this clear. So i propose we remove the vague "from its origin" and make it clear we are taking only about Tamil Nadu (as Tamil Nadu comes immediately after the paranthesis).

--Sodabottle (talk) 14:59, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Sodabottle,

Its generally a known fact that Madurai was teh second largest city after chennai and to be particular from the origin of Tamil Nadu. SO i think it would be better to mention that. Wasifwasif (talk) 11:55, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Edit war regarding Arab/Muslim/Pandyan rule[edit]

a few points:

  • There seems to be a slow edit war going on regarding Arab/Muslim rule. Please keep in mind that the Madurai Sultanate lasted about 50 years. Before that Madurai (Ma'bar) was under Delhi Sultanate for 13 years. So before Marudhanayagam/Yusuf Khan's rule in 18th century, Madurai was under Muslim rule for less than 75 years (out of nearly 2000 years of recorded history). That is not a "very long time". The two sultans mentioned - Alauddin Shah and Sikandar Shah were minor kings even in the Sultanate.
  • Similarly quantifying Pandyan rule as glorious is rather dubious. Sure there were times of great prosperity and power - like the second Pandyan empire in the 13th century. But for a long time they were just small chieftains under the heel of the Chola domination. So lets not paint anything with a single brush as glorious.

--Sodabottle (talk) 08:31, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

I have rewritten the entire history section, mentioning all the rulers of Maduarai without using any superlatives and adjectives. Please try to follow the tone i have used when you edit the history section.--Sodabottle (talk) 09:00, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Notable Rulers[edit]

Sikandhar Shah, Ala-ud-Din Udauji and Jalaluddin Ahsan Khan are not notable rulers of Madurai by any stretch. As i explained above, Madurai Sultanate had a very brief existence when compared to other dynasties/kingdoms. Their rule was brief (10 years, less than a year and 4 years respectively), during a period of turmoil and they have been disparaged by foreign visitors during their reign. They had control of very little territory outside of Madurai and were not emperors. If you want to add notable rulers, try Neduncheliyan III (thalayalanganathu cheru vendra pandyan), Jatavarman Sundara Pandyan, Maravarman Kulasekara Pandyan I, Thirumalai Nayak and Rani Mangammal. But even these are debatable as notable. I am struggling to assume good faith here, but singling out three kings (one of them who ruled less than a year) of an obscure dynasty as notable rulers is blatant POV pushing.--Sodabottle (talk) 17:52, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Independence Activists[edit]

While adding local freedom fighters add with a source. Some of the ones i removed had no or little association with Madurai. For instance Bharathi worked in sethupathi high school for just 7 months in 1904. Thats the extent of his association with Madurai; Quaid-E-Millet Muhammad Ismail was a leader of Tirnelveli District, not Madurai. So while adding any name, add a reference and how he was connected to Madurai, not far fetched connections.--Sodabottle (talk) 18:13, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

The Muhammad Ismail i was referring was not Quaide millat. It was Muhammad Ismail & Niyamatullah Ibrahim of Madurai who actively participated in Independence war in Madurai. I am searching for good references will add shortly.Wasifwasif (talk) 14:34, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

History of Madurai[edit]

Why do you object to covering the period between 550 CE and 1306 CE?. I am describing all major incidents during history of Madurai in one line. You are right about keeping it short/summary style. I will remove the dark period description line and reinsert this instead. then it would be covering all time periods without a gap.--Sodabottle (talk) 15:16, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

I have shortened it further. To sum up - one or two sentences have been added for all major happenings/eras.
My intention was to make the entire history short including all ages to have a better look of the article. Detailed History can be taken to a seperate article. Wasifwasif (talk) 15:36, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
I have taken your advice. I removed two more descriptive lines out of the section. --Sodabottle (talk) 15:38, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Crime rate[edit]

Crime rate, doesn't it creates a panic among the readers? Wikipedia is widely referred and Madurai and maduraiites are in major dependednt on Tourism industry. Mentioning in particular as 19th in India (yes it is) Will this not affect the industry? This was the only idea behind me removing that info. Whats your thought? Wasifwasif (talk) 15:41, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Actually it is a positive addition. It is 19th of 2735 big cities in whole of India. Crime Rate in Madurai is low for India (Madurai ranks better than Chennai actually). Anyway, it definitely wont scare readers (ranking in the lower third half of the crime prone cities is an attraction)--Sodabottle (talk) 15:48, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
Then it is ok. i agree with your view. Let it be. Wasifwasif (talk) 15:50, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
I intend to fill up more demographic data/stats there. It will one among many statistics.--Sodabottle (talk) 15:52, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Image montage[edit]

As ArunHotty is trying to change the montage, let us discuss here and establish consensus. I believe following images should be there in the montage

  • Meenakshi Temple
  • Mahal
  • Maqbara
  • Goripalayam Darga
  • Vandiyur Theppakulam
  • Junction
  • High Court
  • Cathedral

I believe all images are available under licence in commons/en wiki. What do you think?--Sodabottle (talk) 06:37, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

This will be ok. From your list, Goripalayam Dargah and Highcourt alone are missing in the image which i have uploaded. WIll include that too. Wasifwasif (talk) 06:01, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

A 3X3 =9 panel always looks good for infobox montages. So try and get it to 9 images (if we fell short of the number, a view of vaigai over AV bridge or chithirai festival crowd shot too can be added)--Sodabottle (talk) 06:26, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
Good. Picture of Azhagar's entry into vaigai and jallikattu can be added. But 3X3 will minimize the image size much. 2X4 will give a better look i feel. Especially Temple when covering all 4 gopuras 3X3 wouldn't do good job. Wasifwasif (talk) 11:02, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
Sorry, I am by chance here and don't want to mend in the discussion. I think the top panel of File:Madurai_landmarks.jpg has a nice angle but poor illumination. I tried to fix it (and other panels), but it is not that quick job (lighting is poor). A proper picture of that angle could be nice somewhere in the article as it shows the ensemble. File:Madurai covered all.JPG has problems in terms of quality and composition. Materialscientist (talk) 06:14, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for working on that. We indeed have better illuminated/quality pictures in commons and flickr (proper licensed). We will hash out the design here. Thanks again for your work. --Sodabottle (talk) 07:50, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
Wasif,

a better resolution (and colour) image of theppakulam is available in Commons. Can you use it to replace the black and white one in the current montage?--Sodabottle (talk) 07:53, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes Soda,

Will replace that shortly. Wasifwasif (talk) 15:22, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Hi Soda,

Can you give me the link or the image name.? I couldn't find the exact image. Wasifwasif (talk) 15:35, 21 June 2010 (UTC)


Distance locator of a city[edit]

Hello Wasifwasif, May I know the reason of removing the distance locator from Madurai article? It is a standard procedure in the IN city articles to include the distance and direction from the capital in the lead. It helps the reader to familarize the location and certainly improves the article quality. If there is no strong reason to remove it from the lead, kindly re-insert the information. Thank you, --Freknsay (talk) 06:40, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Hi Freknsay,

Could you please list some articles of major cities, having distance locators. SO that we can adopt the same procedures to madurai too. Wasifwasif (talk) 13:04, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Please check Coimbatore, Salem, Tamil Nadu, Rourkela, Mangalore, Kochi, Allahabad, etc.. Adding the dist locator in the lead will improve the visibility passed on to the reader. I don't see any negative impact on the article by adding that info. If you still strongly feel that it should be removed from the article, please go ahead. Thanks a lot.--Freknsay (talk) 07:12, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

-We have a map linked. A picture speaks better than 1000 words. Map link will help in locating better than just name of 2 cities and their distance in kms. Removing that for now. Pls confirm. Wasifwasif (talk) 14:38, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

It may be your POV. The map will not give any idea about the distance from state capital. Any ways, I don't have any problem, as I am not involved in the betterment of this article. I wish the editors do not try to WP:OWN the article. Thank you, Freknsay (talk) 04:30, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Largest city[edit]

An IP is changing Madurai to second largest city using a reference from Ency. Brittanica. In wikipedia, we use the population statistics for determining the largest cities. Thus Madurai comes third after Chennai and Coimbatore (Using both Metropolitan and Urban agglomeration statistics). Brittanica might have a different standard for determining the largest cities or might be having an unrevised article written prior to 2001 (when the coimbatore population became more than madurai population). I suggest the IP respond here before reverting me again.--Sodabottle (talk) 11:40, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

I don't understand the term "Madurai is second largest by land". It is evident that Coimbatore is the second largest urban agglomeration in Tamil Nadu. The term urban agglomeration refers to city and its surrounding sub-urban areas. Now, if we take city limit alone, Coimbatore is second largest by land area. To make it more clear, here is the latest order passed by Tamil Nadu government on city limits.[1]. So, Madurai is third largest by both population and land area, before and after the order passed by government. We never care about the past size. If anybody wants to mention about past size in history, they can do so under "history" section. Don't play around with words. - Boss2boss (talk) 23:20, 4 May 2011 (UTC) ĝ

The link which you have shared clearly speaks about corporation and not about agglomeration. Agglomeration includes not just the corporation limits but the semi urban area within the entire district. So Madurai agglomeration expands till Melur in the east, Thirumangalam in the south west, Usilampatti in the northwest. Wasifwasif (talk) 15:49, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

The sub-urban areas of Coimbatore extends till Avinashi in the north, Tiruppur in the north-east, Palladam in the east and Pollachi in the south. Again there are no definite limits or boundaries for any urban agglomeration rather it is calculated with the help of population. The area may exceed the district or even the state. The sub-urban areas of Delhi extends into states of U.P and Haryana. It is well known that the western districts are the most urbanized part in the state of Tamil Nadu[2] whereas the Madurai region still has lot of rural pockets [3]. Some estimates put the urban areas of Coimbatore (Western) region extending beyond Erode up to Salem and Namakkal. Here are some references which put Coimbatore well ahead of Madurai in urban agglomeration.[4][5][6]. Considering the population, city limit, GDP, urban agglomeration or by any other means of land measurement, it is clearly established that Coimbatore is the second largest city in Tamil Nadu. Hence Madurai can be shifted to third place. Hope this explanation helps. - Boss2boss (talk) 23:38, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

This is ok. But do some research on land wise data. Wasifwasif (talk) 10:45, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
Official Indian census does announce a UA population for cities. So ideally there should be a matching official land area for UAs. (what other local bodies they are adding to corporation limits to arrive at the UA population numbers). I have been searching for this for sometime and still am not able to figure it out.--Sodabottle (talk) 09:49, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
Fine. Add it once you get the exact figures. Wasifwasif (talk) 12:21, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
Indian census does announce the population of UA's. But I cannot really figure out the area covered by the UA's, except for some big cities like Chennai, Mumbai, etc., Long back I saw a website stating that the UA of coimbatore has an area of 373 sq.kms, though not sure about it. --Commander (Ping Me) 07:06, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
It really makes me surprise that someone stating the Sub-urban areas of Coimbatore extends till Tiruppur. How could that be? Tiruppur is nearly 50 km from coimbatore and the city itself is a municipal corpn. and a separate dist. If coimbatore's sub-urban area extends till that surely it would be larger than Chennai in terms of land area which is highly impossible. --Commander (Ping Me) 07:23, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
Also Madurai was not the third largest corpn. in terms of area before the orders were passed. It had a very small area which was not really expanded much after it was elevated to a municipal corpn way back in 1971. --Commander (Ping Me) 07:26, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Newly added temples[edit]

can we have 14.5 Arulmigu Tirumohur Kalamega Perumal Temple. 14.6 Arulmigu Tiruvadavoor Temple. 14.7 Arulmigu Pazhamuthir Cholai Murugan Temple. 14.8 Arulmigu Azhagar Koil. 14.9 Thiruvedagam 14.10 Madappuram Badrakali Amman Temple 14.11 Anaimalai: Narashima perumal and Narasinga valli thayar". 14.12 Pandi Kovil Karuppayurani 14.13 Other Important Temples. These temples in seperate article? This are not much familiar compared with the earlier ones. Wasifwasif (talk) 11:52, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Yes. This reduces the quality of the article. Reverting to state before these changes. Sarabsethh (talk) 11:30, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

since its origin[edit]

I am removing the "second largest city from its origin till 2004 / 2001" bit from the lead. This is vague and inaccurate. Madurai is thousands of years old. no one know for sure what rank/size it was having prior to regular census started in 1871. For all we know it could have been the largest during some times and sometimes when it was sacked by the Chola and Delhi sultanate armies, it lay in ruins for extended periods. Thus a "since its origin" statement is sweeping and not factual.

We have comparable size and population data only from the 19th century. And going by those historical census details, Madrai ranked behind Chennai and Trichy during 1871-1910. For all the four censusus conducted for this period, trichy had the higher population. Thus trichy was the second largest city by population in TN / Madras presidency for this time period. This line is thus inaccurate, vague and does not belong in the lead.--Sodabottle (talk) 13:46, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

ok fine. then go ahead. Wasifwasif (talk) 06:30, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Even I had a thought of raising this issue in the talk page. How can someone say that a city "was largest from it's origin". Chennai was a small village before 350 years. Remember, Bangalore was way behind Chennai and Hyderabad before 50 years. --Commander (Ping Me) 10:15, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

City that never sleeps[edit]

A section called "The City That Never Sleeps" keeps being added and removed from the article. Although it has a couple of citations for minor points, it is mostly original research and somewhat POV.

There are numerous large cities around the world that have adopted a similar title, either from long ago or as a more modern marketing exercise. It is, to me, pretty meaningless. It could be noted in sentence or two rather than using a full section, bearing in mind that the phrase is already in the lead. Anyone fancy drafting up something that we can all agree on instead of this endless deletion and reinstatement cycle? - Sitush (talk) 10:07, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

IMO, a two-three line mention in the culture section (if there is one) is warranted. A lot of coverage directly covering this issue exists in the Tamil press, as it is indeed an unusual feature for Tamil nadu's cities. Here is a news feature from Kalaignar TV on the night life (!) of Madurai. And as someone mentioned in edit summaries, a recent movie was named after this. How about the following lines inserted in either economy or entertainment sections using the above source?
"Madurai is called Thoonga Nagaram (lit. the city that never sleeps) because of its functioning twenty four hours a day. flower shops, vegetable warehouses and roadside hotels remain open through out the night. This is unusual among the cities of Tamil Nadu which shut down before midnight"--Sodabottle (talk) 10:26, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
Your explanation makes sense: I could not work out why so much emphasis was being put on this, not being from India etc. Which is perhaps a warning to all editors: Wikipedia is read by the world, not just people in one country etc. Anyway, your suggestion seems fine to me, except I am not too happy about using YouTube as the source. You will be surprised how many people cannot access YouTube and it should be a "source of last resort" because it is rich media. Can another source do the job? - Sitush (talk) 10:52, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
It could well nigh be true. But the whole section was badly written and poorly sourced. Maybe, we can have one or two lines, at a max a paragraph, not a section. Besides, giving names as "The City that never sleeps" imbibes too much sensationalism to the article.-The EnforcerOffice of the secret service 14:22, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
Yup, we should create a new section on "Culture". The section on "Festivals" could be reduced and merged with that.-The EnforcerOffice of the secret service 14:45, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
A few sources are already added by an user.Wasifwasif (talk) 11:13, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
people who deleted, who discussed and who gave suggestions seem not to work in that part. So adding under culture section as consensus was arrived aboveWasifwasif (talk) 14:39, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Makeup of the article[edit]

The article gives excessive coverage to "Festivals", "Religious Heads" and "Tourism and Landmarks". At the same time, there are only one or two lines each on "Geography", "Demographics" and "Architecture". The presence of too much unencyclopedic stuff makes it look more like a Wikitravel page.-The EnforcerOffice of the secret service 14:38, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

It does look a little lop-sided. However, is that because the shorter sections that you refer to are lacking in content rather than because the other sections are too long? I do have my eye on doing some further pruning but at present I am trying to find my way round the subject matter. - Sitush (talk) 15:08, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

I just had a look at Coimbatore article. Coparing with that, madurai article is too good in terms of info and built up structure. Can someone have a look at Coimbatore article and say in what way make up of this article is disturbing.? Also can someone explain why is that a sudden pour up of so many users who have very less contribution to this article doing these many re arrangement? Sarabsethh (talk) 16:34, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Please read WP:OSE. As for the "sudden pur up", well, like you, I have not edited this article much. So we both fall into that category. In my case, my attention was drawn to it when I saw a mention somewhere else. What is your concern about this? - Sitush (talk) 16:37, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
This article looks definitely worser than the Coimbatore article. Look, there are a set of informal guidelines on what constitutes an encyclopedia and some of the stuff aren't encyclopedic. Of course, we can let them be here, but if at all the stuff remains here, there is no way that the article can be given a higher rating. And as far as contributions are concerned, I don't think anyone has made serious research to write this article.-The EnforcerOffice of the secret service 19:06, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
Every ecclesisatical province has an archbishop. This being the case, a separate section for the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Madurai is a bit too much. The same goes for adheenams, too. There are also adheenams in other parts of Tamil Nadu such as the Thiruppanandal Adheenam, etc. This being the case, only the "Kaziyar" appears to be notable as he functions as the Chief qazi to the TN government. Anyway, this article is not about "Religions of Madurai" or anything of that sort. So there could be a general description of Islam in Madurai in the "Demographics" section and references to the Kaziyar could be moved to the section. The section "Tourism and Landmarks" should surely be cut short as this is not a travel guide. "Festivals" should be renamed as "Culture" and should contain a general description of the culture of Madurai.-The EnforcerOffice of the secret service 19:17, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
I am also concerned that some of what is referred to may not be in the city but in the district, which has its own article. - Sitush (talk) 19:36, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
Most of the information given in the article, I believe, pertains to Madurai city only. True, Thiruparankundram is located about 7 kms from Madurai, but Madurai is quite a big city with a population of about 900,000. Thiruparankundram, might very well be considered a suburb. On the contrary, the article on Madurai District contains information only about Madurai city and not about other parts of the district.-The EnforcerOffice of the secret service 06:14, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
My long wait for the re building of this article has come to an end. Thanks for this. As the top most contributor to this article, i would like to add that, the info addedd here are unique in some way or notable to the city but not presented in a format suiting wiki. Think twice and arrive at consensus before deleting any section. Also try to fit the info in some or the other section which will be in par with wikipedia stnndards rather than simply deleting it. Wasifwasif (talk) 07:09, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
No, we are not talking about deleting it. We are only discussingt on how to copy-edit and merge some of those sections with others.-The EnforcerOffice of the secret service 07:28, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for that. Wasifwasif (talk) 08:58, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
Good work sitush. go ahead. Wasifwasif (talk) 18:40, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Religious sensitivities[edit]

I am very conscious of religious sensitivities but also extremely ignorant about religions generally, so please forgive any faux pas in what follows. Trust me, if they exist then they are not intended!

There is a comment regarding the Hazrats and the Big Mosque which did say at one point that these people are descendants of Mohammed. I asked for a citation and Wasifwasif came up with one, which appears to be the official website of the Maqbara. So far, so good. However, I am extremely wary of making such a bold claim as "are" about a lineage stretching back as far as Mohammed. I agree that the Maqbara website says this but, well, it would, wouldn't it? Surely this is rather like citing a Christian website for the statement that Jesus was the son of God, even though plenty of people around the world think that both are fictional characters.

Now, I am not saying that Mohammed is a fictional character. I have no real knowledge and no real interest, but the point remains that pretty much any source for statements relating to him and his descendants is likely to have a POV, which starts (I guess) with whether or not he existed & how much of the writings about him from all those years ago are hagiography and how much are fact. Much the same discussion as can be had with the Bible etc, in other words.

For this reason, I think it is safer to say that the Hazrats are believed to be descendants of Mohammed, rather than that they are. Is this really going to cause massive offence? I do not see why it should: if you believe then the fact is there, and if you do not believe then the "softening" word is there.

Thoughts are welcome but, please, re-read my first two sentences. I am not trying to start some religious war here & have no desire to be on the wrong end of a fatwa. - Sitush (talk) 13:41, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Believed sounds reasonable to me. "Believed by ..." or "Said to be" would be even more accurate. --rgpk (comment) 21:22, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
No harm in adding believed to be.. Wasifwasif (talk) 07:12, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Chittirai copyvio[edit]

I have just removed the entire Chittirai subsection, as a copyright violation of content that has existed on the site I named in my edit summary since at least 2002, per the Wayback machine. It was added to this article by an IP here. I guess I'll now have to check all other contributions by this IP because I've already spotted some violations but not bothered to track down who committed them. Oh dear. - Sitush (talk) 15:53, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Offices unique to Madurai.[edit]

Govt. offices which are unique to Madurai, or attracting users from places outside Madurai alone are given a mention in the page. For Eg: High court bench which is next only o chennai is given a mention, whereas Distri court which common across all District HQ is not emntioned. Similiar is the Employment office. Professional Employment office is next only to chennai. Why this is trivial? when Passport office and High court bench are not? Wasifwasif (talk) 14:56, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

I would argue that the passport office is probably trivial. The court may be worth noting, but I am not sufficiently familiar with the Indian court system. If it were an article about a British city then I would not be mentioning the court, that is for sure. All cities have courts - it is trivial. - Sitush (talk) 15:02, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

In the Indian system too every district has got court, which is not mentioned here. High court and its bench take care of the entire state. Here high court is situated in chennai and its bench in Madurai similar is the Professioanl Employment office which attracts registrants from half of the state. So i guss this should not be trivial. Wasifwasif (talk) 15:07, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

No. That actually confirms that the court is a trivial point also. The employment office thing has always been totally uncited, and I would like to know how many other professional employment offices there are in the state. I am starting to think that you may be from Madurai, in which case your conflict of interest could be showing. - Sitush (talk) 15:11, 4 July 2011 (UTC).
Out of 32 districts in the state, there is only one Professional Emp. off and one Highcourt bench outside madurai. Wasifwasif (talk) 15:22, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
We both need to stop now as we are edit warring on various things. I do appreciate that your command of English may not be 100% (my command of Indian languages is 0%, so you're better than me there), but your recent changes are actually making the maintenance tag more justified rather than less. - Sitush (talk) 15:14, 4 July 2011 (UTC)


IMO, the highcourt bench is notable, but not the employment and passport offices. The court is notable, because it is very rare for indian states to have more than one high court bench (its one of 30 HC benches that exist in India). Employment offices are present in every fair sized city in TN - all district employment offices serves professional graduates (through internet connectivity), not just the PEEOs in madurai and chennai alone. And three other cities in TN have passport offices - Coimbatore, Trichy and Chennai. So to summarize - high court bench yes, but not the other ones. --Sodabottle (talk) 15:35, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Fine by me. This rather illustrates the point I have made a few times before here: you have to write articles with the population of the world in mind, not just India. Leave the HC and mention how unusual this is; bin the passport and employment offices. I cannot do it as I am at 3RR. - Sitush (talk) 15:58, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
Me too ok. Wasifwasif (talk) 17:28, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Demographics[edit]

The population table in the demographics section is mostly uncited. I am also uncertain whether the growth always represents a natural increase in population or has been affected by boundary changes. Can anyone resolve this issue? - Sitush (talk) 09:04, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Get in touch with sodabottle. he is good in census and population data. Wasifwasif (talk) 12:01, 7 July 2011 (UTC)


An inhabitant of Madurai is known as a Maduraiite -- Well if some local newspaper puts like this , how this can be generalized.. this gives a bad opening to the paragraph.. i want this to be removed.. any challengers?


Other languages spoken are Sourashtra, Urdu and English--- Well ... I can agree with Sourashtra only and many people know English .. including urdu here is too trivial... frankly speaking , someone want to include their community here.. should this misrepresentation be allowed ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Karthikeyan.pandian (talkcontribs) 07:47, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Gniranjank, 14 July 2011[edit]

In this article, it is being stated that Coimbatore is the second largest city and Madurai is the third largest city in Tamil Nadu. But based on the sources from your website, the area of Madurai is 109 sq km and that of Coimbatore is 105 sq km. Therefore it would be better if Madurai is changed to "the second largest city in the state of Tamil Nadu".

Gniranjank (talk) 06:37, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

X mark.svg Not done Here the size of the city is determined by population and not area. Trichy has an area of 147 sq.km which makes it bigger than the two cities you mentioned but still it's the fourth largest in TN. --Commander (Ping Me) 06:59, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

My recent revert[edit]

I have reverted yet another change from third- to second-largest city. I know that this may in fact become the case but the url provided was cited as being the official Corporation website and yet appears not to be. My reasoning for it appearing not to be are: 1. it would not open 2. there was no domain name, only an IP address 3. the first directory down from the root IP address was "newmducorp", which when couple with [1] and [2] suggests that at best it is a draft/test site.

When/if that IP gets mapped to an official Madurai Corporation domain name then we might be ok but until then it looks plain wrong to me. - Sitush (talk) 23:29, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Even Corporation link will not hold good. This is transition period. A decade ago, Madurai was second largest in TamilNadu. So a lot of websites will tell Madurai as second largest. But during last decade, Coimbatore population grew rapidly and became second largest. To support this, we have population figures from official census[7] and area figures from prominent newspaper[8]. We should be able to derive conclusion from these two. We know how frequently the government websites are updated. The history pages of Corporations and Districts websites were created decades ago and they still contain the same old data. I don't think they will update the pages for another couple of years. Even some of the tour websites say Madurai is second largest.

Two decades ago, Bangalore was smaller than Chennai. But due to growth of IT, Bangalore population is more now. Still some of the older websites show Chennai as bigger city. These are outdated and cannot be referenced. Wikipedia should contain latest data - Boss2boss (talk) 03:25, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Gadeena provides a spurious reason. the "german website" merely presents data from the official 2001 census. Even by 2001 official census population figures, Madurai is third largest not second largest. As Boss2Boss points out above, the corporation/district websites (especially their "about" or "profile" pages) are hopeless outdated.--Sodabottle (talk) 05:11, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
By every parameter, Coimbatore is the second largest and Madurai comes next. Here is a comparison to put this issue to rest once and for all.
Parameter Coimbatore Madurai
2001 city limits population 930,882[9] 928,869[10]
2001 Urban agglomeration population 1,461,139 [11] 1,203,095[12]
2001 City limits size 105.6 sq km[13] 51.82 sq km [14]
city limits after 2011 expansion (not yet done) 265.36 sq.km [15] 147.99 sq km [16]
city limits population after 2011 expansion (per 2001 census) 1,262,122 [17] 1,230,015 [18]
Additonal sources - ([19][20][21])--Sodabottle (talk) 05:55, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
Excellent work, Sodabottle. - Sitush (talk) 06:22, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
Good job Soda. As usual you excel in census related data. Wasifwasif (talk) 16:30, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
Good job! Coimbatore's UA population was more that that of Madurai in 1991 itself. Madurai (city) had a population of 0.94 million in 1991. But after that there has been a steady decline in the population of Madurai. --Commander (Ping Me) 12:33, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Clean up[edit]

I tagged a lot of statements back in June as they were either uncited or required clarification. I don't think a single one of those tagged issues has been resolved in the interval, although there have been plenty of (often pointless) other contributions.

This type of article is not particularly easy for me to source and so I am giving due warning: if any of the tags remain here in October then I propose to remove them & their related statements. This article is a mess and we need to get a grip on it. I was quite ruthless back then and will be again this time. Similarly, the number of images just makes the article look cluttered, so some of those may go also. - Sitush (talk) 09:43, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Hi all,

  i  have done some major cleanup to the article to make it look more in standards  of encarta ... Coments and discussions (until it doesnt elope physically ;) ) are welcome and i am open to revert anything that is unencyclopedic but would never bind to non secular  unencyclopedic  porpagandas... LEts join hands to make this more better article 

07:30, 28 September 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Karthikeyan.pandian (talkcontribs)

Architecture[edit]

hi Sitush ,

You have reverted my following contribution citing GOOD FAITH According to the legends , Brahma is said to have born out of Lotus.The Vishwakarma architects who have built the temple should have used lotus, from which brahma is born, to symbolize the creative prowess of the tamilnadu temple architects. Some of these rectangular streets are named after months in the Tamil calendar. The six major rectangular streets around Meenakshi temple are Chittirai, Aadi, Aavani Moola, Maasi, Maarat and Veli streets.The street that surrounds the temple sanctum but inside the tower is called 'aadi veethi' which translates into English as 'aadi street'. The next ones in sequence are 'chitirai veethi' , 'avani moola veethi ' , 'maasi vethi'.


Let me explain the points

1. Brahma is said to have born out of lotus can be found in the Wikipedia article about Brahma itself .. nevertheless , any book about Hinduism will tell you this.

2. Vishwakarma or Sthapati are people who have built the temple .. when a temple is built its not the ruler who builds it but the Sthapati's or viswakarmas

3. Brahma is the god of creation in hinduism...

4. The rectangular streets are named after tamil months ... how come this can be deleted on good faith

5. The rest of the explanation i have given are true. I was brought up near the temple for 20 years and i know it first hand. Hope wikipedia gives credit to personal knowledge too rather than relying only on Citations..if you have doubt please check out google map regarding the architecture of the streets ..


regards, Karthikeyan.pandian (talk) 04:57, 17 September 2011 (UTC)


To be honest, it made little sense to me but I'll analyse it as best I can:
  • "According to the legends, Brahma is said to have born out of Lotus" - this is weaseling. It needs to be more specific, with a reliable source. We cannot rely on what another article in Wikipedia may say.
  • "The Vishwakarma architects who have built the temple should have used lotus" - says who? It reads as if this is your own opinion, which is contrary to our policy regarding neutral point of view.
  • "Some of these rectangular streets are named after months in the Tamil calendar" - what months? What streets? Why? Who says so?
  • "The street that surrounds the temple sanctum but inside the tower is called 'aadi veethi' which translates into English as 'aadi street'. The next ones in sequence are 'chitirai veethi" - this looks to be a little repetitive but it is difficult to be sure
Unfortunately, Wikipedia does not give credit to personal knowledge. Please read about verfiability. Finally, as I said in my (truncated) edit summary, your contribution had the appearance on relying on primary sources and we already have far too much unsourced information in this article, per my message above, without adding more to it. Let's get the existing stuff sourced or removed before we start down this road (forgive the pun). - Sitush (talk) 06:00, 17 September 2011 (UTC)


  • "According to the legends, Brahma is said to have born out of Lotus" - this is weaseling. It needs to be more specific, with a reliable source. We cannot rely on what another article in Wikipedia may say.


       --> --> Citations is : http://hinduism.about.com/od/godsgoddesses/p/brahma.htm
  • "The Vishwakarma architects who have built the temple should have used lotus" - says who? It reads as if this is your own opinion, which is contrary to our policy regarding neutral point of view.
       --> --> in those days the stapathis's were vishwakarma's .. its they who build temples ... i am ok with 

"The architects who have built the temple should have used lotus".... The temple is based on lotus shape.. anyone who visits this or peeps into the shape using google earth will know .. also there is a 'porthamarai kulam' (golden lotus pond) which is golden lotus right at the centre of the temple



  • "Some of these rectangular streets are named after months in the Tamil calendar" - what months? What streets? Why? Who says so?

-- Dude .... you cant question everything until you know it .. yet i will provide citation

http://www.indiatravelnext.com/madurai/

also peep into this map . you can underwstand by yourself if you know tamil month names http://g.co/maps/rsknm


  • "The street that surrounds the temple sanctum but inside the tower is called 'aadi veethi' which translates into English as 'aadi street'. The next ones in sequence are 'chitirai veethi" - this looks to be a little repetitive but it is difficult to be sure


the above two citations explains it all...


With the change of omission of viswakarma ( which i am sure but no citations i can find in net yet :( ) i gues your edit can be reverted .. please feel free to discuss for further clarifications ...

Karthikeyan.pandian (talk) 11:29, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Some of what you respond with may be ok but some definitely is not. For example, about.com is not a reliable source and using GEarth in the way that you suggest is tantamount to synthesis. Indeed, the entire paragraph, comprising a multitude of different sources as you suggest, may fall foul of the same problem if not carefully worded. I'll wait for some input from other experienced contributors - I am sure that something can be knocked together between us. - Sitush (talk) 11:50, 17 September 2011 (UTC)


ok ..if one part of the statement is not in agreement it doesnt discard entire para.. atleast i ma going ahead and adding infos about streets.. that one is not a synthesis but 'in front of the eye' 'as is' information ... regarding lotus and brahma and architects , i can wait for some one to arbitrate this ... but how long should be the wait ? 07:35, 18 September 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Karthikeyan.pandian (talk) 07:40, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

I have removed it again. This is partly because there is no deadline and partly because it is repetitive: your sentence more or less repeated the preceding sentence, which is also unsourced. I'll see if I can figure a way to merge the two some time today, if no-one else comes forward with an opinion. - Sitush (talk) 09:34, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Well .... the content has no deadline butitsnot necessary to waitfor YOUR free time .... i can too wait but for someone as a goodwill but it the botleneck continues then i have toaks for Arbitration — Preceding unsigned comment added by Karthikeyan.pandian (talkcontribs) 04:24, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

WP:Consensus describes the basic procedures. It is evident from the activity on this article and its talk page that there are people who contribute fairly regularly. A little time for some other input will not cause any great issues: the point you wish to introduce may well be valid etc but it would need some reworking. I'll have a further think about it myself when I am able. The issues of repetition and of sourcing are valid concerns. - Sitush (talk) 00:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

maqbara.com[edit]

I have removed citations that use this website as a source. There are a couple of reasons for this:

  1. There is absolutely nothing on that website, or at WHOIS, to verify that it is the official site for the mosque. Indeed, as things stand it could just as easily have been published by myself (better by me, in fact, as the design is a bit "bleurgh" !)
  2. Even if there was some means of verification, information such as this should surely be available from multiple independent sources, per WP:V and WP:RS. Reliance on the site, which someone has claimed in an edit summary is in fact official, is not a great way to substantiate the statements in question.

I would appreciate it if someone could find better sources. - Sitush (talk) 21:49, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Adding better sources. Amjath123 (talk) 10:32, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
Sorry but bizlist is not a better source. They mirror content from Wikipedia. We need a book. - Sitush (talk) 11:08, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
Reverted as you requested.

1) maqbara.com is not a blog and that exclusively speaks about the mosque and maqbara complex. I guess it should be maintained by the mosque or maqbara or someone who is well aware of that. I guess we can't simply neglect taht as unreliable. 2) I have read in books, but those doesn't bear a ISBN number. Of course, that are of very old edition that, they were published before ISBN was brought into effect. I think a book would not add value to wikipedia without the ISBN number. 3) I can add a multimedia link about the mosque from a renowned state newspapaer. the audio in that says it being the 2nd oldest in Tamilnadu. 4)indica.co.in is another i hvae added. you are comments are welcome. Amjath123 (talk) 11:48, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Pls go through this. http://books.google.co.in/books?id=Ovxq8enmRKUC&pg=PA52&dq=kazimar&hl=en&sa=X&ei=a3cNT5WgHsbRrQe8ufCqBA&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=kazimar&f=false — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amjath123 (talkcontribs) 11:53, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
A website does not have to be a blog to be unreliable/unauthoritative, and I am not too convinced about using news sources for this sort of information because they often just parrot whatever they are told. Your last link above seems to be a good one (being published by Routledge) & it says something slightly different. Let's see what else turns up. Thanks for your efforts. - Sitush (talk) 12:12, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
  • (Just passing through:) I agree with Sitush on the maqbara website. The book looks very useful. I have not looked at the other source mentioned here. Drmies (talk) 15:13, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
I am planning to re work on the section gain. Its widely known and mostly written in the books (might not contain ISBN number) that it is the 2nd oldest mosque in tamil nadu.


Also, on what basis, maqbara.com site can't be taken here.? It cannot be unreliable just because a user says and the other agrees to that. Amjath123 (talk) 09:47, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Please read the first message in this thread. Please do not reinstate maqbara.com. Please do not reinstate the "second oldest" statement unless you can support it with reliable sources. - Sitush (talk) 10:57, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
Read that message. maqbara.com is good looking in its relaibility. No issues with the site. Amjath123 (talk) 10:11, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
Well, if you think it looks good then I think you need to read WP:RS. No way is that site (in its current form) going in this article. - Sitush (talk) 10:15, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
@ Amjath, thanks for taking up and bringing in the book reference. @Sitush, Can you be more specific on how this site doesn't fit into that. As you mentioned early, like whois info showing a websolution company name, i am not seeing that to be the reason for disqualification with respect to WP:RS. Wasif (talk) 12:09, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
Sorry, but is anyone reading what I write? See #2 of my original message, read WP:RS, WP:PRIMARY and WP:SPS ... and note that there is nothing on the website or at whois which indicates that the site is official. Give me a couple of hours and I'll create one showing that the mosque is the newest in India - and how could you possibly dispute it using the logic that appears to be de rigeuer here? If you can find a decent book (not Lonely Planet etc) that confirms the point then fine and good, otherwise we stick with what we have. - Sitush (talk) 12:47, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
Give me a couple of hours and I'll create one showing that the mosque is the newest in India. is this ready.? Amjath123 (talk) 14:23, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Tamil in the lead[edit]

Hi, Went through the discussions in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Noticeboard_for_India-related_topics/Archive_48#Native_languages_in_lead. The discussion there is applicable only when there is a conflict of what langugae to be used and particularly for the Personalities and not for the cities. Moreover, we dont have any language conflict here and its not a wikipedia policy that mandates not to put lead. Wasif (talk) 11:36, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

The consensus was to remove Indic scripts from the lead agreed, but there were user who added Telugu, Kannada and malayalam to various articles including Chennai, Coimbatore, etc. Hence, it was removed. I think User:Sodabottle should comment here first. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 21:25, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
The consensus was to remove scripts from all India related articles irrespective of a conflict.  Abhishek  Talk 05:09, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
But it still remains in articles of movies. And in a related case, on Tamil Nadu. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 05:12, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
Well mass removal was what the admin asked to avoid, maybe remove it in a span of 4–6 months since the consensus. As and when you come across an article you have never edited and see the scripts, you can just remove them. Face-smile.svg  Abhishek  Talk 05:18, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
The consensus was simply to remove scripts, nothing more, nothing less. The closing admin noted the consensus here. I think its in plain and simple English. Lynch7 05:32, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
The fact that it still remains on many articles doesn't mean that the consensus is not clear; it means that we're just not removing them en masse. Lynch7 05:34, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
@Wasif, Absolutely not. Nowhere was it mentioned that the RfC was applicable to only those articles which had conflicts. Those articles were simply used as examples to illustrate the problems with having them. Lynch7 05:39, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
I see. As for Conflict of language. It's a very vaguely defined phrase. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 10:21, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Entertainment - Eco Park and festivals[edit]

  • Though there is a new proposal for another Eco park at Thirupparankundram, the one that exists now is at Tallakulam not in Thirupparankundran.
  • It is worth to mention the average visitors of the Eco Park, too.
  • Madurai is sometimes regarded as "City of Festivals". But it is not mentioned in the article. --Essaar (talk) 14:33, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Madurai/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Vensatry (talk · contribs) 11:42, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

I will review this article. Will begin the process shortly. Vensatry (Ping me) 11:42, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Initial comments[edit]

I've had a quick look at the article, but did not check the references part. For now, I'm going to highlight only the major points.

Infobox[edit]

  • Area = 248 sq.kms unsourced. Except for the infobox, I don't see that figure anywhere in the article
Yes check.svg Done - corrected details.
  • I don't know from where did you arrive at these figures: The 1,561,000, 11,000/km2 (27,000/sq mi) and 2,062,420 Vensatry (Ping me) 07:50, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
Yes check.svg Done. Infobox auto parm gets the density. Corrected the wrong numbers.Ssriram mt (talk) 03:50, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
  • The projected population needs to be removed from the lead. Also the provisional results was calculated based on the old city limits. The corresponding population figures for the 147 sq.kms are yet to be released. 1,016,885/147 sq. kms is totally wrong. In this case the density isn't correct. Vensatry (Ping me) 15:35, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
Yes check.svg Done infobox and lead set to 2001. Ssriram mt (talk) 01:52, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
  • I never asked you to change it to 2001 figures. In this case you have to use the area of the city in 2001. Prior to the expansion, the city had an area of 51.5 sq. kms
Census Area (City) Population Area (UA) Population
2001 51.5 9,28,869 NA 1,203,095
2011 51.5 10,16,885 NA 1,462,420

Vensatry (Ping me) 02:45, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

The city population of 2011 and area of 2001 will make a confusing read. There is a clear indication that the city limits have expanded. So it is best to retain the 2001 in the lead. I have added the population of 2011 alone in the lead.Ssriram mt (talk) 03:44, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Etymology[edit]

  • "Madurai is called Thoonga Nagaram, meaning the city that never sleeps because the hotels, shops and markets in the city

appear to operate round the clock". This doesn't seem to be encyclopedic and is unsourced

Yes check.svg Done. removed.

History[edit]

  • The second para contains just one source
Yes check.svg Done - added references.
  • The city was constituted as a municipality in 1866 needs a source
Yes check.svg Done.

Architecture[edit]

  • "Athens of the East" should be debolded per WP:MOSBOLD
Yes check.svg Done. puppet edit.
  • Last three lines are unsourced
Yes check.svg Done. puppet edit.

Geography and climate[edit]

  • The 147.99 sq. km is an updated area; Text following the fact are unsourced
Yes check.svg Done - expanded.

Demographics[edit]

  • The section contains data from out-dated sources. I see no official sources being used there. All are just projections based on past data. There are a lot of contradictory figures used. This section needs to be totally re-written
  • Last two lines, no sources
Yes check.svg Done - fully rewritten.
  • The 1,016,885 figure was for the old city limits. The density is unsourced and you have wrongly calculated it based on the expanded city limits
  • The 2011 results are provisional and not final
  • The provisional results of the 2001 India census released by the Government of India give the population of Madurai metropolitan area as 928,869. This figure is not provisional, the final one
  • The sex ration is for 2001 or 2011?
  • I'm not convinced with the way in which ref #47 is used. See Trichy to get an idea of how it's used
  • Also this give the statistics for the city or the entire district?
  • "The most widely spoken language is Tamil, though there are also significantly large number of people speaking Saurashtrian, Urdu and English" is unsourced

Vensatry (Ping me) 07:50, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done - the section is fully re-written. I am not convinced about district level details in a city page(still for religion, i had no choice). I have provided data that covers the city predominantly. The corporation website data cannot be comprehended(no year, no percentages).Ssriram mt (talk) 03:38, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
  • No need to go for District data. Although I agree that the census authorities don't provide religion-wise data for Tier-II cities, Google Books and newspaper sources could help you in this regard. Vensatry (Ping me) 02:53, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
Yes check.svg Done.
  • The above comments still remain untouched. Vensatry (Ping me) 03:12, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
  • Yes check.svg Done -was waiting on other minors to be closed - planned this as the last. Whole section totally rewritten from last update.
  • Madurai metropolitan area constitutes the fourth largest metropolitan area in Tamil Nadu and the 24th in India" -> Third in Tamil Nadu Vensatry (Ping me) 02:53, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
    • Population of Madurai metropolitan area as 928,869 -> wrong. The figure represents the population with in the city (municipal) limits. The population of the urban agglomeration (or Metropolitan area whatever they call) was 1,203,095 in 2001. Vensatry (Ping me) 02:53, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
      • A bit of difference here - the corporation website gives the area as 51.5 and population is within corporation limits as 11 lakhs approx. What is the convention here - UA? Ssriram mt (talk) 14:28, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
        • They say 11 lakhs (approx). This must be a projection. I'm very much sure that the 11L figure isn't official. Likewise, I don't think it represents the UA population. Vensatry (Ping me) 16:40, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
          • Yes check.svg Done - removed and re-written. Added more contents. Ssriram mt (talk) 19:30, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Administration and Politics[edit]

  • Looks okay for me

Transport[edit]

  • Link places like Dindigul, Theni, Virudhunagar, Thirunelveli, Thoothukudi and Kanyakumari
Yes check.svg Done.
  • Inconsistent spacing between road names (NH and 45B for instance)
Yes check.svg Done - linked as well.
  • "The major carriers operating from the airport are Air India, Jet Airways and SpiceJet" - unsourced
Yes check.svg Done
  • Link Tamil Nadu State Transport Corporation
Yes check.svg Done
  • "Madurai has four major bus stands, one each at four cardinal points, namely, Mattuthavani Integrated Bus Terminus (MIBT), Arappalayam, Palanganatham and Periyar Bus stand" needs a source. Also the lines following this doesn't seem to be verifiable
Yes check.svg Done
  • "The railway stations in Madurai area are Madurai Junction, Koodal Nagar, Samayanallur, Sholavandan, Vadipatti, East Madurai, Silaiman, Tirupuvanam, Thiruparankundram, Tirumangalam, Chekanoorani, and Usilampatti" is unsourced. What do you mean by "Madurai area"?
Yes check.svg Done
  • Move Ref #96 to the end of the sentence. Ref should come after punctuation
Yes check.svg Done

Religious Places[edit]

  • One liners like "The famous Madapuram Badrakali amman temple is situated 18 km from madurai" must be avoided
Yes check.svg Done. puppet removed. Ssriram mt (talk) 22:46, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
  • The deity, Azhagar, is believed to be the brother of Meenakshi, the presiding deity at the Meenakshi temple" unsourced
Yes check.svg Done
  • What makes "murugan.org" a RS
Yes check.svg Done

Vensatry (Ping me) 07:50, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Media[edit]

  • Italicize "Deccan Chronicle"
Yes check.svg Done. Ssriram mt (talk) 22:49, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Utility services[edit]

Some unsourced statements
  • "Softnet (STPI), Tata VSNL, Bharti and Reliance are other major broadband internet service providers in the city"
Yes check.svg Done - removed.
  • "There are numerous private hospitals - such as Aravind Eye Hospital, Apollo Specialty Hospital, Bose Hospital and Meenakshi Mission Hospital - which cater to the needs of City people"
Yes check.svg Done. promotional, removed. Ssriram mt (talk) 22:51, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

General[edit]

Over-linking
  • Indian National Congress, Tamil Sangam, and Madurai Junction are linked twice with in sections
Yes check.svg Done. removed overlinks within section.
  • Remove the link to district website in EL
Yes check.svg Done
Though the article is significant in terms of coverage, the prose needs to be vastly improved. I don't think the article will pass the nomination until you get a good copy-editor. Anyways, I'm putting the article on hold for a period of seven days to see if something can be done.

Vensatry (Ping me) 09:03, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Comments by TSU[edit]

I haven't gone through the article but just the lead. It is not good as far as GA is considered. There are 3 para and 2nd is too big while 3rd is too small. Have a look at Mumbai, Delhi and Ahmedabad (my hometown+GA) and do the changes as WP:LEAD should summarize the article. I'll have a look and see if there are any other issues. Thanks! TheSpecialUser TSU 15:37, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, the size of the 3rd paragraph is a bit of a concern. The 2nd isn't; because good-article criteria doesn't condemn articles with large paragraphs. There are many FAs with large paragraphs - like Mysore, etc. That the size of paragraphs should be even is a suggestion - not a must. Such stringent criteria might be adopted for FAs not GAs. Anyway, regardless of the size of the lead, I completely agree with your suggestion that the lead should summarize all the sections in the article-RaviMy Tea Kadai 02:53, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
I don't have problem with having big paras but having too much of info relatively. See history section; the lead (only history related info) is almost half of it which is really just above the boderline or the history section has less info. Either trim down the second para or expand the history a bit. History section has very little info in fact so it is best to increase it's size and add more details. TheSpecialUser TSU 05:33, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
Rearranged the contents. Ssriram mt (talk) 03:04, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

Further comments[edit]

Referencing
  • Why is IBNLive italicized. Same with "Madurai Corporation", "Tamil Nadu Tourism Development Corporation", "7wonders.org", etc.,
Yes check.svg Done
  • PDF references should have this field ("format=PDF") in their refs
Yes check.svg Done
  • "demographia.com" doesn't look like a RS for me
will be removed with the rework part of demographics section.
  • Refs. shouldn't use hard-coded URLs like "madurai.tn.nic.in"
Yes check.svg Done
General
  • "Ma'bar Sultanate" and "Madurai Sultanate" both link to the same pages. Unlink the latter in the lead
Yes check.svg Done
  • The "tourism and entertainment" part sounds like a promotional stuff

Vensatry (Ping me) 11:27, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

An optical fibre lighting in a local park is not present even in large public parks and i thought it relevant to be placed in there. When tourist spots are specified, any item like visitor average or history would obviously look promotional. Madurai to commoner is always jallikattu , Chittrai festival & float festival. Specify which parts need to be reworded. Ssriram mt (talk) 03:04, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
Yes check.svg Done. Things that sounded in tourist tone are removed. Ssriram mt (talk) 03:54, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
  • Link Chennai, Coimbatore, Kanyakumari, Trichy, Tirunelveli, Karaikudi, Mayiladuthurai, Rameswaram, Thanjavur and Vriddhachalam in the "Transport" section. Vensatry (Ping me) 04:49, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
Yes check.svg Done
A bit of copy editing is needed overall - Please leave it for 2-3 days when i will reach out to foks and will get it changed. Ssriram mt (talk) 13:31, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
Set of copy edits carried out across sections and new references are added. Please suggest if you still find certain things missing. Ssriram mt (talk) 03:54, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
Additional comments
  • Convert all hyphens into dashes wherever appropriate. This script should come in handy
Yes check.svg Done
  • Nayaka, Thirupuvanam – dab
Yes check.svg Done
  • The Lady Doak college website appears to be dead
It is working.
  • Move Ref #5 to the end of the sentence as they should come after a punctuation
Yes check.svg Done
  • "It is the third largest city and the second largest municipal corporation in Tamil Nadu" This is totally wrong. None of the sources also verify this. In the past there was a debate about Madurai Vs Coimbatore. Coimbatore is the second largest city/UA in TN even during 2001
Yes check.svg Done
  • The fact that "It has been a major settlement for two millennia and is one of the oldest continuously inhabited cities" is mentioned only in the lead and not anywhere else. This is a significant fact and needs a mention in the "History" section
Yes check.svg Done
Yes check.svg Done
  • X mark.svg Not done I still see a mix of YYYY-MM-DD and dmy in a few newspaper sources. Vensatry (Ping me) 15:35, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
Yes check.svg Done - originally the access date was kept in one format and regular date in other. All streamlined now. Ssriram mt (talk) 01:33, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
  • "Major TV channels such as Sun TV Network, Vijay TV, Jaya TV and SS Music have their branch offices in Madurai" is unsourced
Yes check.svg Done - removed, refs not reliable
  • Any reason for italicising "Meenakshi Amman Temple" in the lead
Yes check.svg Done
  • Link Municipal corporation in the lead
Yes check.svg Done
  • You have mentioned about the Municipal corpn in the beginning of the section, while the sentence "The corporation received several awards in 2008 for implementing development works" appears at the tail end of the section and doesn't have any continuity with the preceding sentence.
Yes check.svg Done
  • The link to corporation website in the External links doesn't work
Yes check.svg Done
  • Is Madurai a planned city?
 :Yes check.svg Done debatable - historically yes, now - no. removed the cat.

Vensatry (Ping me) 08:54, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

Some of these got mangled during the rework - will fix it by my evening. Ssriram mt (talk) 12:38, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

Economy[edit]

  • "The prominent ones being Thiagarajar Mills, Kasim Textile Mills, Sundaram Textiles, Weaves India, Vaigai Group, PRP Exports, Madurai Arkay Rock, P.R.Granites, Madurai Granite Exports, Duniterocks, and Arkay Glenrock" unsourced
Yes check.svg Done. source not reliable, removed.
  • Fourth para is inadequately sourced

Vensatry (Ping me) 07:50, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done. Added refs.

Since I'm not an expert on "History" and "Administration and politics" sections, I've asked for a second opinion. Vensatry (Ping me) 18:56, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Comments following the second opinion[edit]

  • Administration and Politics - no problem but please change Politics to politics
Yes check.svg Done
  • History - It is merely useless to keep Main article: History of Madurai as the History_of_Madurai is just a stub and everything is covered in Madurai, perhaps, please remove it. Another thing, that if possible, add little bit of more data or expand it as the last two paras being small and independent don't look nice. Other issue is that details in the section jump from 1866 to 1921 which concludes lack of "broad coverage" (a point in GA criteria)
Yes check.svg Done
Although the sub-article is too small, it can be expanded easily. For a city like Madurai with over 2500 years of known history, it has a lot of potential. Vensatry (Ping me) 03:08, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
  • References - you don't use commans' images as reference, do you? I'd prefer to make a new section External links with a link to official municipal website and add the commans' template in it rather then keeping it in references.
Yes check.svg Done
  • Images - captions don't impress me. Like you have it in history section, it should be throughout per WP:CAPTION and should describe the image briefly or state relatively and not just name that what is inside it. For e.g., Madurai Corporation is too short. There are 11 images with the same issue. It'd be great if you can add WP:ALT to images.
Yes check.svg Done
Yes check.svg Done
  • Culture, tourism and entertainment + Religious Places - I see that there are paras with merely one line which is not a good way to write as far as MoS is concerned. Please merge most of them and make paras with at least 4-5 lines. Also, change Places to places
Yes check.svg Done
  • Lead - it'd be better if you merge 2nd and 3rd para into one and 4th and 5th into another
Yes check.svg Done
  • General - you are using both forms, AD-BC as well as BCE-CE. Please stick to one and be consistent
Yes check.svg Done
  • Overall - pretty good! It just fails the criteria of caption of images completely and broad coverage very remotely.

TheSpecialUser TSU 21:32, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

  • Thumbs-up-icon.svg Great! Its a yes from my side for GA! TheSpecialUser TSU 07:12, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
Thanks a lot for the comprehensive second opinion. Ssriram mt (talk) 12:35, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
Comments by Ravichandar84

I am posting here as I was requested to give comments on the "History" section of the article. I am giving my concerns below

  • "well recorded history" is a relative term
Yes check.svg Done -reworded.
  • The identification of "Madura" with Megasthenes' "Methora" has been contested by some
Yes check.svg Done - added detail and reference.
  • Being the "seat of the Pandyan dynasty" is not an attribute of Madurai and the city cannot be "described" as such
Capital city is the major identity in dynastic rule. Maturaikanchi is a book predominantly highlighting this point. Kanchi, Tanjore are more associated with Pallavas and Cholas respectively. When a city remains the capital for most of a dynasty's tenure, it is worthwhile to mention it. Prefer to retain it.
I don't have problems with the details. What bothers me is the sentence formation. A city cannot be "described" as a seat of a dynasty it can only be "listed" as such. "Madurai is the seat of the Pandyan dynasty" would be better I feel than "Madurai has been described ..." -RaviMy Tea Kadai 02:23, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
Yes check.svg Done - reworded.

On the whole, I feel that the first paragraph goes into extreme, often unnecessary detail on Sangam Age references of Madurai and could very well be shortened.

No other city in TN has as much documented evidence as Madurai has. Tamil language sangam is often left in shades. Sangam lit is the primary documentary evidence for Madurai. Given that maximum happened for a language in a city, it is mandatory to mention it. Prefer to retain it.
As per Wikipedia:Summary style, the article should stay focussed on the topic without going too deep into the details. A sentence or two on the "Sangam period" might be necessary but I don't feel a list of all historians and historical works which mention Madurai are. You might list the important ones alone; the rest could be moved into History of Madurai article.-RaviMy Tea Kadai 02:28, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
Yes check.svg Done - trimmed contents and reworded. The original review comments were to remove the stub History of Madurai as the main article. The idea of having the varied set of literature across different periods is to show the recorded history part - merged those parts.Ssriram mt (talk) 02:48, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
  • "The Pandyas were removed from power by the Chola dynasty during the early 9th century"

This statement is partly false - the Pandyas were never removed from power. They held a long, continous and atleast ceremonial overlordship over Madurai from the 3rd century BC to the time of the Madurai Nayaks. There were times when they acted as feudatories of more powerful monarchs such as the Pallavas (7th to 9th century AD) and the Medieval Cholas (10th to 11th century AD) but they were never really ousted from power. They even held strong enough to defeat the Imperial Chola army in the heyday of Chola power

Yes check.svg Done - reworded.
  • Kulasekhara Pandyan was never the "last Pandyan ruler". According to Robert Caldwell, the Pandyas ruled as independent monarchs from Tirunelveli even after Malik Kafur sacked Madurai
Yes check.svg Done - reworded.
  • "changed hands" appears too informal and would not be an appropriate term for Wikipedia.
Yes check.svg Done - reworded.
  • The "Madurai Sultanate" was never "destroyed" but gradually absorbed part by part into the Vijayanagar Empire until it was completely extinguished in 1378
Yes check.svg Done - reworded.
  • "Gandhiji" - honorifics need to be avoided.-RaviMy Tea Kadai 14:33, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
Yes check.svg Done.
Thanks a lot for the comprehensive second opinion. Ssriram mt (talk) 03:45, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

Check against the criteria[edit]

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
  7. Overall:
    Pass/Fail:

I'm awarding this article GA-status. Congratulations! Vensatry (Ping me) 15:05, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

It is quite obvious that a lot of hard work has gone into the writing of the article. I commend User:Srirammt and User:Vensatry for their job.-RaviMy Tea Kadai 02:46, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Infobox Collage[edit]

Images used in the collage image of infobox seems to be old and dark by appearance. It need to be fixed and the credits of the collage photos must also be mentioned in source field to meet the image standards. It can also help avoid the ImageForDeletion tag in future. --Essaar (talk) 11:15, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

District vs City[edit]

Why are we saying

With the advent of Small Scale Industries (SSI) after 1991, the industrialization of Madurai developed employment in the sector across the district from 63,271 in 1992–93 to 166,121 persons in 2001–02.[119] By the latter point, 28 per cent of the SSIs were textile-based, 22.9 per cent were building-based, 18.1 per cent were food-based and 10.4 per cent were electric-based.[119][120]

?

The figures are for the district, which has its own article. I realise that we do use the word "district" in the statements but it is confusing and inappropriate. I very nearly removed it but thought I'd see it someone can find figures for the city (my view of the source on GBooks is restricted). - Sitush (talk) 16:13, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Good catch - i was finding it odd while writing. I have removed the numbers, which are relevant to the district.Ssriram mt (talk) 14:31, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

BEIC control[edit]

Aside from the ambiguous map on page 253 of Markovitz, I can find no support in that source for the statement that it was in 1801 that the British East India Company took direct control. The map refers to 1790 and 1801, and to annexation, but makes no mention of direct control. Can someone explain this, please? - Sitush (talk) 16:49, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

... and an explanation for the vague comment sourced to King, Anthony D. (2005), Buildings and Society: Essays on the Social Development of the Built Environment, Taylor & Francis e-library, ISBN 0-203-48075-9 would also be appreciate. Since the British government devolved control to the EIC until post-1857, I am pretty sure that something is amiss in either the phrasing or the facts here. I cannot see the source at all - pesky GBooks - but would be delighted if the relevant pages could be made available for review. Ta. - Sitush (talk) 16:53, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Independence activists[edit]

One trait common to Indian place articles - even down at village level - is to name-drop some independence activists/freedom fighters. I can understand the temptation to do so but unless the named people are notable in their own right (and thus can be blue-linked) then they have no place in any Wikipedia article. There are literally hundreds of such people who are blue-linked, but N. M. R. Subbaraman and Mohammad Ismail Sahib are not and they appear only to get passing mentions in the cited sources. It is trivia and it should be binned. - Sitush (talk) 17:06, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

They are quite notable, just that wiki doesnt have article in their names. Mohammad Ismail Sahib conceived the Muslim League party. Leaving prime leaders, all these leaders get only passing mention in English sources. We cannot expect to have Tilaks and Gandhis in all the towns. Ssriram mt (talk) 14:22, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
I have also added about temple entry movement, which is a historic one. Ssriram mt (talk)

British census data[edit]

British census methods in India changed from one decade to the next, and often quite dramatically. Are we sure that the figures used in the table of historical population prior to independence are meaningful? Is it really a good idea to tabulate using several sources? - Sitush (talk) 17:15, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

removed pre-independence census. Ssriram mt (talk) 14:26, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Second-tier city[edit]

The concept of a "second-tier" city is meaningless to most people outside India. Can it be linked to a suitable article? - Sitush (talk) 17:34, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Yes check.svg DoneSsriram mt (talk) 14:27, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Continuous habitation[edit]

Surely there must be an English language source for "Madurai has been a major settlement for two millennia and is one of the oldest continuously inhabited cities in the world with a recorded history from 3rd century BC.[3]"? Dinamalar is currently used and I am not even sure that it really cuts the mustard on the reliability front. I am also curious regarding when it became a city, rather than a settlement: are we in danger of mixing apples and oranges? - Sitush (talk) 20:11, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done. Ssriram mt (talk) 02:52, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Sfn citations[edit]

There are a lot of problems with the Sfn citations. Briefly, these comprise citations that seemingly have no source and sources that seemingly are not cited. I think that in most cases the problem is likely to be that they have no been linked correctly. Regardless, this is a GA and it is not acceptable. I have simply deleted most of them but some remain due to lack of time. I hope that someone can sort out the mess but if not then I'll re-read the Sfn documentation and have a go myself. - Sitush (talk) 20:49, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

BTW, User:Ucucha/HarvErrors.js is a useful tool for finding these type of errors. - Sitush (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
Yes check.svg Done

GAR[edit]

This is advance warning: this article is poor and should never have been awarded GA in its then form. Since no-one with access to the sources etc seems to be prepared to fix it, I will be seeking a delisting. - Sitush (talk) 19:37, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Somehow the talk is off my watchlist. I have removed redlinks and also will work on to remove puppets. Ssriram mt (talk) 23:02, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
I came here from the List of Oldest Inhabited Cities. The claim that it is one of the world's oldest inhabited cities in the world seems to have been based ona Wikipedia republisher's book and said oldest in India. One of the other 2 sources was a Wikipedia article, the other a travel book. Please folks, when you vet for GA vet the sources against our criteria, make sure there are page numbers for books, etc - maybe even check them? Dougweller (talk) 15:21, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
The citations are fixed. Ssriram mt (talk) 03:11, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Maamadurai Potruvom[edit]

Hi, The article Maamadurai Potruvom about the recent meet held in Madurai to celebrate the heritage of madurai is with less or No information. please contribute to improve the article. Wasif (talk) 06:49, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

citations/clarifications[edit]

There are quite some that have been noted. I will fix it over the weekend and request a lock. The blanks are induced by the refs removed earlier. Some puppet edits add to the cause and somehow sneak in to degrade the overall quality. Ssriram mt (talk) 04:50, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

These are fixed. Some of the edits were plain vanilla and could have been accomplished by simple edits, rather than crowding the article with CN template.Ssriram mt (talk) 16:03, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
No, they are not. And sniping at me will achieve nothing. I've said it before and I say it again: this is not a GA quality article yet. There still remain, for example, too many unsourced statements, too many misrepresentations of sources (I've just fixed one) and too many unexplained gaps. - Sitush (talk) 17:17, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
I have nominated the article for GOCE and will add references on the missing pieces. Nothing personal here, but edits are easy compared to review templates/comments.Ssriram mt (talk) 02:58, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Is second largest municipal corporation of Tamil Nadu?[edit]

Hello, Please provide a source for the statement "Madurai is the second largest municipal corporation of Tamil Nadu" in the introductory paragraph of this article. The citation provided near to the statement does not has any proof for this statement. Thanks. Mmahesh207 (talk) 11:04, 24 October 2013 (UTC)