Talk:Malcolm X

Daughter

The name of the first daughter, Atallah, is not derived from the name Atillah the Hun, who was neither black nor shared the Islamic faith, thus making it unlikely that Malcolm X, who was so careful about names, would name his first daughter thus. The name Atallah , in Arabic, means "gift from God", and is a common name for Muslim/Arab children. Please make the appropriate note of this in your page — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.159.149.170 (talk) 20:00, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Attallah may have that meaning in Arabic, but according to Malcolm X himself (in The Autobiography of Malcolm X), she was named for Attila the Hun. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 20:34, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

It might still be good to note the difference. Attallah is a common name in the Middle East and it would be weird if everyone went away accidentally thinking all those people were named after Attilah the Hun.41.199.150.25 (talk) 10:09, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

I found an interview in which Attallah Shabazz says her name was based on the Arabic "gift of God" and not after Atilla. I'll add that to the article. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 18:43, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Other names

"Detroit Red" redirects to this article without explaining what that means or why. This article does not mention his other names used. There should be a place in this article for those other names, which are should be easy to find reference for. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.181.219.32 (talk) 08:59, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing out the omission of Detroit Red. I think the article mentions Malcolm X's other names in historical context. If you think of anything else that's missing, please post it. Thanks. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 23:37, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

Edit request 6 October 2011

Paragraph two (2) of main article, two (2) typographical errors corrections in bold Two (2) grammatical errors (striking the comma after hospital; instead, place the comma in the same sentence after "thirteen", e.g. When he was thirteen, his mother...). Typographical orrections as follows:

Malcolm X's father died—killed by whites, it was rumored—when he was young, and at least one of his uncles was lynched. When he was thirteen his mother was placed in a mental hospital, and he was placed in a series of foster homes. In 1946, at age 21, he went to prison for breaking and entereing (entering).

Therefore, to change X to Y, Here is X:

Malcolm X's father died—killed by whites, it was rumored—when he was young, and at least one of his uncles was lynched. hen he was thirteen his mother was placed in a mental hospital, and he was placed in a series of foster homes. In 1946, at age 21, he went to prison for breaking and entereing.

Change it to Y:

Malcolm X's father died—killed by whites, it was rumored—when he was young, and at least one of his uncles was lynched. When he was thirteen, his mother was placed in a mental hospital, and he was placed in a series of foster homes. In 1946, at age 21, he went to prison for breaking and entering.

David Jerrard Givens (talk) 02:45, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing out the problems. I just fixed them. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 03:01, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Either way is that detail necessary in an Article about Malcolm?--Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ (talk) 19:09, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

value of life insurance policy

I think the part where the value of the life insurance policy is stated and then given a value in 2010 dollars would qualify as original research. The value either needs to be verified or that sectioned removed. Also as Value of money is ambigious, there are at least ten different ways to determine value in the past compared to present. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.141.193.128 (talk) 17:22, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Ordinarily I would be inclined to agree with you, but the source cited, Malcolm X: A Life of Reinvention by Manning Marable, specifically says $1,000 was "the equivalent of about $15,000 in 2010" (p. 32). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Malik Shabazz (talk • contribs) 17:46, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Okay, now I am confused to do we use that template formatnum or no? I put it in a bunch of articles. 66.234.33.8 (talk) 23:15, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm not familiar with formatnum, and it isn't clear to me what it has to do with the value of money in the past. If it's working for you, don't change it. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 05:31, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Where are his papers?

I do not see if their are any surviving papers of him or where they are. From here, Harlem Center’s Director to Retire in Early 2011 can I edit the Schomburg Center for Research in Black Culture to say that it has all of his papers? It's unclear to me. If Schomburg does have all his papers, then why is it not in the article, or did I miss it? 66.234.33.8 (talk) 11:17, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Malcolm X Papers, Contested Malcolm X papers go to NY Public Library, Malcolm X Trove to Schomburg Center. It looks like the papers are in the Schomburg. If it is true, then I am requesting an edit be placed in the article to indicate that. Thanks 66.234.33.8 (talk) 11:58, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

If this article does not account for where his papers are store, then the only conclusion I can draw is that his papers are not notable and then I have to delete any reference to them in the Schomburg Center article. 66.234.33.8 (talk) 23:32, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

There is no need to be in a rush and you should not hastily conclude that his papers are not notable. Why would you think you need to delete mention of his papers in one article just because they are not yet mentioned in his biography? I have not yet had the time to look into the matter, but you could add the content yourself if you have researched it and can add solid references to reliable sources. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 00:20, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Cool; it's on the backburner. 66.234.33.8 (talk) 00:34, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

I have just taken a look at my copy of Manning Marable's monumental biography Malcolm X: a life of reinvention published last year in 2011. In his bibliography section on page 564, Marable refers to the Malcolm X Collection at the Schomburg Center for Research in Black Culture as one of the sources he used in writing his biography. The other significant academic collection of Malcolm X documents is housed at Emory University in Atlanta. Of course, there are many other archives that contain some documents related to Malcolm X, but these seem to be the two archives devoted to collecting primary documents about Malcolm's life and work. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 00:45, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Since Malcolm X is most widely known for his autobiography and his speeches, I didn't think a discussion of his papers was significant for this article. That doesn't mean they're not a significant holding at the Schomburg, or that acquiring them wasn't a coup for Howard Dodson (the library's director).

If other editors feel we should mention his papers in this article, I'm not opposed it. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 05:44, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

I guess there need's to be an author that writes the collection, itself, is notable. We already know the part that was initially misappropriated was appraised at $500k. Then his daughters donated more. I got what I want. I'll go look at p. 564 of Maltby's book and now, even better, I know I have to look at biographies of people that donated papers to the Schomburg. Although, I do bring in E. J. Josey who discusses the collection and he is extremely powerful. I probably need to get rid of the NY Times and LA Times as citation; they're too weak. 66.234.33.8 (talk) 10:22, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

There's a confusion here about requirements for an article's topic (which must be notable) and the various bits of information that make up an article's content (content need not be notable -- again, only the article's topic need be notable). See WP:NNC. EEng (talk) 10:07, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Ah, so you are saying that if some dude says something is historically important, as editors we can deprecate it and then omit that fact from the article. Although, if "Malcolm X found a cure for cancer", then we would have to include that cause it's absurd not to. Right? 66.234.33.8 (talk) 10:36, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

I can't say whether what you're saying is what I'm saying, because I can't understand what you're saying, dude. But I do know what I'm saying. I'm saying that the link I supplied discusses the common misconception that article content (as opposed to topic) must be notable. EEng (talk) 04:21, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Let me rephrase. If this article does not mention his papers, then that gives me prima facia evidence his papers are worthless. As far as "content need not be notable", as you point out, that's fine. As an editor, I just do not think it makes sense to include not "notable", worthless, garbage information in the Schomburg article. I think a full and fair evaluation of his papers, which is part of his legacy, is important. I am very sorry, but sometimes the WP: pages are difficult to comprehend. I don't have a law degree. 66.234.33.8 (talk) 22:26, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Regardless of whether this article mentions Malcolm X's papers, they may be notable to an article about the Schomburg Center. An analogy: A forward pass may not be important enough to mention in a quarterback's biography, but it would be very important to discuss it in an article about the football game. In any event, we seem to be in agreement (see below) that Malcolm X's papers should be mentioned in this article. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 03:23, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

I'll see what Josey says about the notability of the other archives mentioned here. If he does not mention them or deprecates them, then that's a problem. 66.234.33.8 (talk) 14:57, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

As far as I know, the only things in that archive might be a set of postcards signed Happy Birthday, so...66.234.33.8 (talk) 13:53, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm not attached to this article and I am sure that a popular view of Malcolm is extremely important. But Josey is world-class. I don't know if he had a chance to review the archives because they are so hot off the press, but I really feel no love for any of the authors used in this article, as compared to Josey. I am prejudiced to believe that Josey knocks the socks off every author used in this article. Sorry, but he's only been involved in librarianship for 50 years. The dude is a certifiable powerhouse. 66.234.33.8 (talk) 00:46, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

I am a relative newcomer to this article, but I will say that I favor a brief description of the institutions holding his papers in this article which is his biography. More lengthy descriptions of the Malcolm X holdings in the articles about those academic institutions would be appropriate, I think. I do not understand why we should deprecate a certain source (Manning Marable or whoever]] because one editor feels "no love" for that source as opposed to lots of love for Josey, unless that lack of love is based on something really solid in more reliable sources. I also don't see the need to "get rid of" the New York Times source that describes the unusual provenance of this trove of papers in fair detail - I think that is a wonderful source for understanding the unique history of this particular archive. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 2:15 am, Today (UTC−5)

I drafted a short discussion of the papers here. Please feel free to edit as you'd like or comment here. Thanks. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 21:38, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

You guys might get mad at me, but the Schomburg Center is really extremely important. Whomever did the Infobox on libraries, they did it wrong. I really only have, prolly, 4 things to include in the collection. Phillis Wheatley is immortal. Ralph Bunche won the Nobel Peace Prize. So that only leaves 2 spots. I have a problem with even finding out who was the first director of Schomburg, so I hope that you guys can figure out the historical significance of his papers. 66.234.33.8 (talk) 22:05, 15 January 2012 (UTC)