Talk:Marc-Joseph Marion du Fresne

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Other names for this guy?[edit]

'Captain Nicolas-Thomas Marion-Dufresne'

'Marc Joseph "Macé" (or Nicolas Thomas)'

and just 'Marion Dufresne'(or Marion Du Fresne)


Marion Bay in SE TAsmania is named after him too. --Meika 23:38, 8 November 2005 (UTC)


There was many mistakes about the proper identity of captain Marion Dufresne.

The most commun is a false identity, founded on an wrong study of Prosper Levot, in 1856, and reported bay H.Fr.Buffet in 1947. Marion Dufresne is erroneously said him to be Nicolas Thomas Marion Dufresne, born on 22 december 1729 in Saint-Malo, son of Nicolas et Jacquette Pilvesse

The real captain (and explorer) Marion Dufresne was christened Marc Joseph on 22 May 1724, and son of Julien Marion Dufresne and his wife Marie Séraphique le Fer de la Lande. He is ofen referred to as Macé and signed by that name. H.Fr.Buffet was aware of his mistake ans correct it in 1958 (in Mémoires de la Société d'Histoire et d'Archéologie de Bretagne, tome XXXVIII - 1958, "L'Explorateur Malouin Marion du Fresne").

Beside of that, please note that his name's orthograph may be Marion Dufresne or Marion du Fresne and that en.wikipedia has two article for both spelling. That should be resolved...

--Yves Duflot (talk) 17:56, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Treaty of Waitangi[edit]

I have removed du Fresne from the Treaty of Waitangi category as there is no connection I can see between the two subjects. --Helenalex 00:01, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

...and put him in the History of New Zealand category, which is more appropriate. --Helenalex 00:04, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

discrepancies[edit]

The French article says that the tapu violation was cutting sacred trees, not fishing! —Tamfang (talk) 16:22, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

The Dictionary of New Zealand Biography presumes that du Fresne transgressed in some way. The evidence is that there were ostensibly very friendly relations, some minor reconnoitering by Maori, and then a raid. That suggests Maori duplicity, not French offending - after all it were the French who were attacked and eaten, not the Maori.203.184.41.226 (talk) 22:44, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Merge[edit]

Same person, but which is the preferred spelling of the name? Maias (talk) 03:10, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

From a cursory search and review of various sources, both "duFresne" "Dufresne" and "du Fresne" seem to be widely used, perhaps preferred by Australian and New Zealand publications respectively. (Even "de Fresne" comes up,[1] but I think that is a mistake.) There are some interesting quotes on Yves Duflot's French talk page (Google translation), although he is mainly arguing against the incorrect first names used in their article ("Nicholas Thomas"). He acknowledges both variants are used, and prefers "duFresne" "Dufresne", perhaps based on a birth record. Personally, I don't think it matters too much; both are widely used, and we'll need a redirect from the other no matter what. -- Avenue (talk) 08:38, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
"duFresne" is not correct. That looks like Southern US or perhaps Canadian. French names never feature that sort of mixed case. Rama (talk) 11:23, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
Sorry, you're absolutely right. --Avenue (talk) 12:46, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
OK - I have merged the other (stub) article into this. Maias (talk) 00:37, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

More Pictures[edit]

There is a very dramatic painting of Marion Dufresne being murdered in the book "Marion Dufresne at the Bay of Islands" by Leslie G Kelly. I am not at all capable in this area, but if someone has the ability to get that picture into this article it would be a great addition. 122.108.189.192 (talk) 06:49, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Leslie Kelly died in 1959, according to [2], so his works are now in the public domain in New Zealand. It may be that he commissioned the painting from someone else, in which case it may still be under copyright, or it may be a very old painting out of copyright at the time Kelly used it in 1951. Wikipedia cannot simply use a work which is in the public domain in NZ because WP adheres to the more restrictive US copyright laws, so a fair use claim would need to be made (unless the painting is very old), and such a claim does not usually succeed when alternative images are available, even if the alternatives are inferior. See {{PD-NZ}}.-gadfium 19:52, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
Is the painting you refer to the one by Charles Meryon, made about 1850? Meryon died in 1868, so this is in the public domain in all countries and can freely be used in Wikipedia. See [3]. The Alexander Turnbull Libraries statement that its permission is needed for any use of the image carries no legal weight.-gadfium 20:01, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
Yes that is the one, how does one get to see a high resolution version of it? 122.108.189.192 (talk) 07:58, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Linking To Other Articles[edit]

I understand the wikipedia policy on linking, and linked Indian Ocean to it's primary article, it was deleted within minutes of me creating the link. My question is who decides what is to general? Now I wouldn't link to a article say on ocean, plant or tree, that I understand. The way I started basing on where to provide links is by my young son who loves to use wikipedia, for instance here he was reading the article on Marc-Joseph Marion du Fresne and thought a link to the Indian Ocean, Tasmania, and New Zealand would be good so he could quickly go to those pages to set the scene of what he was reading. I believe that we edit wikipedia for future generations and if something helps someone understand a subject that much better it should be linked. Ok I'm not going to run on about this, I just want to know who decides? duanedonecker (talk) 09:27, 28 October 2013 (UTC)