Talk:Marquis de Sade

Potential sources

The following have been removed from the bloated external links section. Feel free to integrate the reliable sources among them into the article as inline citations:

• Brief biography from "books and writers"
• Timeline of his life
• Biography from Channel 4
• Brief biography from sade-ecrivain.com
• Description of one of de Sade's escapes
• Annotated bibliography by Marina Pianu
• Arms of de Sade family
• Bataille on Sade by Geoffrey Roche
• Critique of Maurice Lever's biography
• Biography by Neil Schaeffer, some letters written by Sade while in prison and a timeline
• Biographyby Douglas B. Lynott True TV.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mligorio (talk • contribs) 01:50, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Works online

French

• French Wikisource public domain works by Sade
• Works by or about Sade, in several languages Archived page from 2007-06-10

English

• Marquis de Sade elibrary PDFs of 120 Days of Sodom, Philosophy in the Bedroom, a short story, and biographical materials
• The 120 Days of Sodom - e-book
• Justine
• Dialogue Between a Priest and a Dying Man (PDF)
• Florville and Courval

Skomorokh 05:39, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

"Frank-descended"

The article states:

The de Sade family were Noblesse d'épée, of the oldest, Frank-descended nobility ...

Is there any evidence that de Sade and the noblesse d'épée more generally were of Frankish descent, or was this claim some kind of propaganda put out by the French aristocracy itself? A reliable source would be useful. Norvo (talk) 00:26, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

The apparent discrepancy in title between father and son shown by this letter may be explained as in this era a title born by the father conferred a title to the eldest or right heir during the life of the father to the next lower order of precedence. For example, in England during the 17th C it was customary for a father who was a baron for his eldest son to bear the title baronet.

This convention had at its basis the sovereign whose offspring were by right of birth conferred the title prince or princess. This practice fell out of favor as it caused great consternation and confusion in determining the order of precedence among the first sons who would hold a temporary title of the same rank as those who held the same title by inheritance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.14.15.72 (talk) 06:45, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Pronunciation of "sadism"

The pronunciation of "sadism" is so variable that I consider it overly judgmental to recommend one over the other. Unfree (talk) 17:49, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Explanation due

The following sentence could benefit from a bit of explanation:

"Later that year his name was entered - whether by error or willful malice - on the list of émigrés of the Bouches-du-Rhône department."

That is, What did his entry on the list imply about him, and to whom, and what consequences might have been expected? Unfree (talk) 18:16, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Meaning of "sadism"

From the article: "The namesake of the psychological and subcultural term sadism, his name is used variously to evoke sexual violence, licentiousness and freedom of speech." Perhaps, but how about the libidinous infliction of pain, cruelty, and torture? As it stands, the statement is inadequate. Unfree (talk) 18:42, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

On the other hand, I've never heard the term sadism to refer to freedom of speech. Also, the claim made a few sentences later ("Sade's sexually explicit works were a medium for the articulation of the corrupt and hypocritical values of the elite in his society, which caused him to become imprisoned.") may be true, but should need a citation, correct? Mysticete (talk) 05:28, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Politics

I think that a section on his political views would be in order. Apparently, he was an early predecessor to socialists. Some have even called him an anarchist communist. Zazaban (talk) 07:00, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Religion

You seem to have placed De Sade in the categories French Atheists and Atheism Activists, but I don't see any source in the article stating his religion (or, technically, lack thereof). Simply being critical or religion does not mean he was an atheist. he could easily have been a Deist or Maltheist judging only fromt he article; so if you have sources for his religious positions, please cite them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.89.254.150 (talk) 21:55, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Comte Xavier & Publication

How verifyable is this narrative? I'm very sceptical, especially of the statement "Marquis de Sade's works went unpublished and unread in France until the 1960s", regarding the esteem his work was in by avant-garde writers from the likes of Baudillare and Lautremont into the 20th century, eg. Bataille, Genet; they must have had access to his work. Ross.Brighton (talk) 08:24, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Influence

Interesting that Sade's fascination for, and influence on philosophers and writers is, rightly, detailed in the article, but that on some others who were a bit more literal in their admiration, is not. Perhaps that's because the article is a little squeamish in describing what exactly Sade actually depicts in, for instance, 120 Days of Sodom.Straw Cat (talk) 16:44, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Imprisonment for his writings and death

I see the year of his death, but nothing about it. A few sourced quotes:

"Marquis de Sade died at the age of 74 on December 2, 1814, at 10 o'clock in the evening, easily and quietly as a result of a long illness which had nevertheless not impaired his vigor." Ivan Bloch, "Marquis de Sade: His Life and Works"

"died at 10 pm on December 2, 1814, of a 'pulmonary obstruction' following a 'prostrating and gangrenous fever.'" Foreword, The Complete Marquis de Sade, Volume 1 By Marquis de Sade, Paul J. Gillette, John S. Yankowski

"Grossly overweight, the Marquis de Sodomy died on December 2, 1814. De Sade's final request was to be buried in an unmarked grave so that 'all traces of my tomb may disappear from the face of the earth, just as I hope all traces of my memory will be erased from the memories of men.'" The concise guide to sounding smart at parties by David Matalon & Chris Woolsey

"His will, made at Charenton on 30 January 1806, expressly forbade a Christian burial and ended with these words: 'Once the grave has been filled, it shall be sown over with acorns so that all traces of my tomb may disappear from the face of the earth, just as I hope all traces of my memory will be erased from the memories of men, with the exception of those few who kindly continued to love me until the last moments, and of whom I take a pleasant memory to the grave.' Introduction, Plays of the Marquis de Sade, translated by John Charles Franceschina and Ben Ohmart Bustter (talk) 17:22, 30 August 2011 (UTC)