Talk:Marshal of the Soviet Union

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
WikiProject Soviet Union / Russia / History / Military (Rated Start-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Soviet Union, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR) on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
Start-Class article Start  This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale.
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Russia (marked as High-importance).
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the history of Russia task force.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the Russian, Soviet and CIS military history task force.
 
WikiProject Military history (Rated Start-Class)
MILHIST This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.
Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality assessment scale.

POV[edit]

The 3th paragraph in "History of the rank" - it claims that Stalin was a "political" marshal, and since "political" is in brackets, I assume that the connotation is negative. In reality, Stalin was the supreme commander of the RKKA at that time, and thus was a "military" marshal, regardless of opinions about Stalin's leadership. (Majority of marshals and generals serving under him claim that Stalin has grown into an efficient and competent strategist, for example, Zhukov). However, so far I am puzzled how to re-word this. With respect, Ko Soi IX 06:47, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps you could just eliminate the quotation marks. The fact that he commander the military, and maybe even did it well, does not change the fact that he achieved the rank as a result of his political accomplishments, rather than his military accomplishments. So I think it is fair to continue to refer to him as a political marshal. - Shaheenjim 02:53, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Good point. I'll try to expand it to explain. Another issue is Beria as a political marshal, it also needs expansion, since NKVD did fight the Germans on the front. With respect, Ko Soi IX 14:24, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
Having done some reading and some thinking, I think that the 'political' applies to the rank of Generalissimus, and not Marshal in case of Stalin. There was a technicality in purely administrative sense that during the war Stalin could not issue orders to officers that outranked him, and he had retained a military rank since Civil War times and through the 1930s. In his capacity as the head of STAVKA, Stalin had the administrative task of managing relationships of different field commanders which were not always cooperative, and so in terms of hierarchical function his ranks was necessary from the strictly military POV, therefore his Marshal commission was warranted in the purely military sense, and the 'political' annotation should probably be remove.--mrg3105mrg3105 22:12, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
He did make himself Generalissimo in the end, but also his decision making was no different to Hitler or Churchill or Roosevelt or Chiang Kai-shek (although Chiang was a career soldier).Staygyro (talk) 01:11, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Because all were heads of government, and ultimately conduct of war is policy making. However in USSR they did things differently and Stalin was required to retain a rank due to existence of the High Commander Reserve forces that he alone commanded. Other persons you mention did not have command of such forces. --mrg3105mrg3105 01:28, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
Interesting, can you provide a source?--Strothra (talk) 02:17, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
Can you please provide a reliable source?Staygyro (talk) 01:11, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism![edit]

sombody fix this page page please, then lock it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Roadworx (talkcontribs) 17:02, 9 May 2007 (UTC).

Transliteration[edit]

In the intro it goes "Sovietskovo" but the Cyrillic is given as "Советского"... so shouldn't it be "Sovietskogo"? Usually I would correct these things myself, but as I'm not a good Cyrillic reader, I thought I would note this here. 202.89.152.202 09:15, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

In russian, endings that are written as "ogo" are pronounced as "ovo", thus the transliteration in the intro is correct. With respect, Ko Soi IX 13:03, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Thanks! You don't need to be polite to me, I knew for sure the apparent discrepancy was due to my own shortcomings :D 202.89.152.202 10:40, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Rank comparison[edit]

Hi Buckshot06. I was wondering about that, so thank you for the revision. I will send you a translation form Russian of thought son rank comparison (only short). I wonder if you can help. I added some marshals, but now can't see the table although they are in the table in the article. Can't understand why. In any case, I need to add another Kazakov. There were two marshals of the same name that were at one time commanders of artillery with the GSFG. Can you have a look and fill me in please when you have a chance? There are is more marshal work to be done ;o), and I don't even want to think about the lower-ranked Front and Army commanders.--Mrg3105 (talk) 00:56, 26 December 2007 (UTC) Hey, what happened?! All my additions and revisions disappeared and there is no edit!!! Well, its going to have to wait now until I get around to it again in a months time :(--Mrg3105 (talk) 01:32, 26 December 2007 (UTC) Well, now I remember, I was in preview :(--Mrg3105 (talk) 02:06, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Tag & Assess 2008[edit]

Article reassessed and graded as start class. --dashiellx (talk) 20:15, 3 June 2008 (UTC)