Talk:Martin Bernal

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Modern Molecular genetics will prove Bernal to be correct[edit]

Molecular genetics will prove Bernal correct.Current 1/2 million autosomal SNP marker studies of Italians and Greeks show them as 40-50% middle eastern,in other Autosomal STR based studies - Italians match to El Minya,Eygpt.Bernal's Thesis will stand the test of time.The truth will set you free as they say. 121.91.10.61 (talk) 01:40, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Lol! If you knew the first thing about genetics you wouldn't have made that ridiculous claim. By all means keep bashing your head against the wall. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.7.120.154 (talk) 18:07, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Offensive or inaccurate content[edit]

I concur with the text below. I knew his mother who was an immediate neighbour in Downshire Hill, Hampstead. She was most certainly not Jewish; I find the use of this term offensive in the context of it being used as an insult as it has been by some of the edits here and I agree it is anti-Semitic. I have no axe to grind on this other than defend the facts. I originated the article on his mother when I learned of her death. Let's keep this factual.Cj1340 (talk) 00:02, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

In the current article there is some content which is inaccurate or offensive. Rather than just changing it unilaterally, I'd like to explain that here, in the hope that we may achieve some consensus.

  • Martin Bernal is not a Jew. He had some Jewish ancestors, but so do many non-Jews. The description "Jew" is not in itself offensive, but in this context to insist on it stinks of anti-Semitism.
  • MB was a fellow of King's College, Cambridge. To repeatedly remove that category is just a deceitful way of trying to undermine his reputation.
  • Presumably the editors of this article are trying to defend the honour and dignity of Greeks. For people with Greek names to insist on including the details of the relationship between MB's parents is just contemptible, and therefore has the opposite effect to what they want.
  • There seems to be a belief that MB is in some way anti-Greek. This simply isn't true. The most important point in Black Athena is the reassertion of the truthfulness and reliability of Ancient Greek historians, in contrast to the modern conventional view, which often discards their work as valueless.
  • It would be preferable to confine this article to the factual details of MB's life and career, and to keep the discussion of Black Athena to its own article.
  • I have read Black Athena volumes I and II, and am currently half-way through volume III. Nothing I have read has given me any reason to doubt the value and originality of Greek culture.

SamuelTheGhost (talk) 23:38, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Point 1, agreed, I have removed this category. There was also for a short time a much more offensive passage in the text of the article itself. Point 2, I have restored the tag. Point 3, his father's history with women is complex, and it is true that his parents were not married (though his mother called herself Mrs. Bernal). Not sure whether mentioning this makes sense here. Points 4,5,6 -- agreed, this all belongs in the Black Athena article. --macrakis (talk) 23:48, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
Both editors with "Greek (user)names" that I see were certainly editing in good faith (one revert was an accident, even) so I can't agree with point 1 (at least as you perceive it). On the rest (except for the slight simplification in the latter part of point 4, but that's off-topic here, anyway), agreed. 3rdAlcove (talk) 00:41, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
This is WP:PA and beneath notice except to say that if it is repeated it will be brought to the attention of the relevant arbitrators. Bernal's jewish roots have been mentioned by him as well as by the critics of his theory to point out that it can be construed as being essentially biased and in the exact same way he accuses others of being. This is a point made repeatedly and to which Bernal has replied so it definately warrants inclusion with respect to the controversy. As for being anti-Greek this is an opinion sourced in WP:RS and since it was attributed to that source there was absolutely no reason for contesting it.--Xenovatis (talk) 05:32, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
Are you defending "he was born out of wedlock to a pair of jewish origin" in the biography section? (Which sounds terrible partly because of its content and partly because of its poor English.) And the removal of one of his academic honors? And the addition of the label "British Jews" because one of his great-grandparents was Jewish? (Though his parents were Catholic.)
We know he became interested in his "Jewish roots" (he talks about this in BA's introduction) and that inspired some of his investigations; we also know that some of his critics talk about this. Fine, that belongs in the Black Athena article. But from that to "he was born out of wedlock to a pair of jewish origin".... --macrakis (talk) 07:07, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
The definition of "born out of wedlock" is A child born of parents who were not legally married to each other at that time. so it is in fact true as cited in JDBernal's biography which citation I provided you with. Bernal's jewish roots are also cited in several places, which again were provided. As for the rest I invite you to drop this boring habit of employing the straw-man fallacy and reply to what is in fact written not what you think is and then ranting about it.--Xenovatis (talk) 18:03, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Martin Bernal and the cultural marxist antisocial political action[edit]

The aim of the sinister stirring up of conflict og struggle between groups that is the basic totalitarian philosophy of cultural marxist like Bernal, appealing both to the conceit and vanity of the upper social stratas that want to view themselves as more valuable and important to society than the rest of us, and to groups that the cultural marxist can use as their clients and victim group, is and extremely socially destructive form of politization. Through the social conformity pressures that the cultural marxist use to make groups enemies of each other, their client groups are educated into identifying themselves as a group, and not as individuals or as individual characters, and the viewing of themselves as part of a helpless and victimized group encircled by "The Other". What cultural marxism is, is the education of selected victim groups, into attributing every misfortune, disappointments, and hardships common to all mankind to "The Other", thereby creating hatred and animosity among groups. And the goal of cultural marxist is to use these methods to make "latent conflicts" that are fading away "manifest" in their "Weltanschauung". To reproduce the social conflicts of yesterday by inversion. And the most dangerous and antisocial of all of these forms of cultural marxism is the struggle to recreate and restage the racial conflicts of yesterday. And that's the goal of Martin Bernal.--85.165.94.243 (talk) 13:23, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
What kind of drugs are you taking? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.7.120.154 (talk) 18:12, 20 January 2013 (UTC)