|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Masjid al-Haram article.|
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- 1 not enough r.s ref
- 2 use the edit summary to explain your edits
- 3 what was the first thing built?
- 4 History section?
- 5 There is no such thing as "Masjid al-Haram," it's "Al-Masjid Al-Haram"
- 6 Transliterated words
- 7 Move?
- 8 Premature move
- 9 Abraham/Ibrahim?
- 10 Administration section
not enough r.s ref
there is a serious lack of ref and this article will need them. Who is writing most of these sections is not necessarily inaccurate but we need sources for those statements, esp when people need to verify info by themselves. I cannot trust things without ref. --Inayity (talk) 12:54, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
- Dear Inayity, I hope you are well. You are right. I'm trying to clean up the prose, but it's also clear to me that the article needs reliable neutral sources. I'll search for some as time permits. Please free to add some too. Regards, George Custer's Sabre (talk) 20:18, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
use the edit summary to explain your edits
By doing that it communicates the issue so other editors know. Saying "un constructive" does not inspire much collaboration. b/c I was very confused at the reversion. WP:ES--Inayity (talk) 15:59, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
what was the first thing built?
I'm a bit confused by this: "the very first construction of the Kaaba, the heart of the Masjid al-Haram, was undertaken by Abraham. The Qur'an said that this was the first house built for humanity to worship Allah.[Quran 3:96] With the order of the God [Quran 22:26], Abraham and his son Ishmael found the original foundation and rebuild the Kaaba [Quran 2:125] [Quran 2:127] in 2130 BCE." What was the "original foundation" found by Abraham, if he build the first construction? --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 04:43, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
According to Islamic tradition, the original foundations were the foundations of the first Ka'bah, built by Adam. I have found a good online reference for this (Story of Holy Kabah and its People by S.R.M Shaabar | First Chapter; Ka’aba - The House Of Allah)--Zkrjebril92 (talk) 17:33, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
The Pre-Mohamed part of the "History" section is very much centred on Islamic beliefs, so is subjective. This information is important to the completeness of the article, however Wikipedia articles should be written from an objective point of view. The history section should be in subjective terms. The Quran says the Kabaa was built by Abraham, but what have scientific investigations revealed about when it was built? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 15:22, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
- Seems difficult as architectural research into Islamic historical places, even such a famous one, is very lacking. Only thin like this i can think of is analysis of the Black Stone showing tht the black Stone was most likely a meteorite. --Zkrjebril92 (talk) 16:01, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
There is no such thing as "Masjid al-Haram," it's "Al-Masjid Al-Haram"
Yes it means exactly what one thinks it means. There is no such thing as a mosque, anywhere in the world, called "Masjid Al-Haram." The reason is because the meaning of that would be "the mosque of prohibited things" rather than the real name for the grand mosque, "AL-Masjid Al-Haram," which actually means "the sacred mosque." Writing an Arabic ism (not exactly the same as a noun but close) without the definite article followed by another ism which actually does have the definite article causes the first word to become a possessor and the second to be a possession. That is not the case with this mosque; it is "THE masjid" and "haram" is functioning as a na't or adjective describing it as holy or sacred. If we even look at the Arabic Wikipedia version, "المسجد الحرام," we will see that the definite article is attached to both words; not doing so is a really blatant grammatical error.
Thus, I would like to propose two possibilities...we either change the article's name to "Al-Masjid Al-Haram" or just change it to English per WP:ENGLISH. Either way, this current title does not refer to an actual place because no mosque on Earth, including the subject of this article, is called that. MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:53, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
- I'm going to quote two policies: WP:VERIFY which says that material "must clearly support the material as presented in the article". And WP:WEIGHT which says that content is featured "in proportion to the prominence of each viewpoint in the published, reliable sources." So essentially, it does not matter if it grammatically wrong - what matters is whats in the sources. The fact remains is that the current phrasing IS found in reliable sources hence i'm gonna vote to keep it as it is. Pass a Method talk 07:13, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
Unfortunately, most of the Arabic names doesn't have a standard transliteration in English. So I suggest, if a word doesn't have a standard transliteration in English then we should use Wikipedia article name on that subject, if exist. For example if Wikipedia article names the cuboid building as Kaaba, then all words refer to thaere should be Kaaba in the Article. Not Qaaba, Qabah, Kabah, Kaabah etc.. Similarly, Wikipedia transliterates the city where Kaaba is in as Mecca. So we should stick on this name. If you believe that "i.e. Mecca" is a wrong transliteration then go ahead and discuss that issue on that page before making a change on this page. Thank you. Yakamoz51 (talk) 11:12, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
Sorry. I was checking how to move the page if and when an editorial consensus emerged. I accidentally did it. I have reverted my move. I apologize. George Custer's Sabre (talk) 05:47, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
- I feel like the Move debate was poorly advertised in the correct communities and hence got a low turn out. Most of the people who supported the move did not even use the above vote. Total opinions only 3 Including me.--Inayity (talk) 03:27, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
The article switches between the two names for the same person. I suggest only "Ibrahim" be used as his relation to the Kaaba is only in the Islamic tradition. Wkharrisjr (talk) 17:21, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
Can we get some sort of definitive listing, some sourced official source, so that the list of who is Imam when and all that isn't a source of constant disruption? I don't know enough to fix this and it's frustrating the hell out of me. Peter Deer (talk) 22:57, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
Do we need this long section ?
Imams and Muadhins section is more than a quarter of the article. And also it is merely list of current and former imams/muadhins. Imagine, we put all the names of former imams/muadhins than it would be a list of thousands of people throughout the history. Several of them even doesn't have a WP page. So I propose to summarize (if not remove at all) this section and keep only very notable imams and muadhins. Yakamoz51 (talk) 15:29, 25 March 2014 (UTC)