Talk:Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority

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Streetcar history

I've started looking at the history of the streetcars - I've written Dorchester Railroad and Cambridge Horse Railroad. User:SPUI/New England streetcar companies is a partial list of the companies; the Railroad History Database was the source of most of these (and has detailed info for some). The NOT FOUND ones were in other sources (mostly a pair of maps (1898-1899) on http://memory.loc.gov/ ). --SPUI (talk) 20:44, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

5 abandoned tunnels?

The "Filming on the MBTA" website advertises that the MBTA has "5 abandoned subway tunnels". The only one I can think of is the abandoned segment of the Red Line under Brattle Square -- are the rest on the Green Line? 134.174.21.2 20:28, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

• The only one I can think of is the Pleasant Street Incline which connects to Boylston on the Green Line. -- Beland 14:04, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Pleasant Street? No street of that name in the area. I know there is at least one disused tunnel in the Downtown Crossing area though. Phase III of the Silver Lie is supposed to usie something under Tremont Street. --Belg4mit 00:20, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

• Yeah you can still see a part of it... If you are at Boylston Station on the Westbound (Outbound side) look to the right of the active track. You can see an inactive track that has an antique train on it... Then as the train pulls out of Boylston on that same side follow the track along. It slowly begins to go downward until the tight-turn at the end of Boylston station where you can literally see where that downward track passes under the current (turning) active track. On the Eastbound (Inbound side) of Boylston, right as you are going up/down the stairs that enter into the station look beyond the mesh gate on the right hand side. And look back-- you can see where the track comes from under Tremont Street. Again you can't miss it because this side has an antique train on it too.

• Oh, there's also one between Bowdoin (MBTA station) on the Blue Line (MBTA) and the Longfellow Bridge, formerly ending at "a portal at Cambridge and Russell Streets", sealed in 1952. [1]. -- Beland 17:35, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
• I think there is another near Government Center; see Tremont Street Subway. -- Beland 18:40, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
• Ah, and there are [2] two more sealed portals, one at the Public Garden (closed 1914), and one at Charles St. (closed 1941). Don't know if there are actually tunnels corresponding to those. There are also some apparently abandoned side tracks at Kenmore, perhaps from the old incline there which closed in 1932. -- Beland 20:41, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
• There might be some near Harvard Square, due to the northwest expansion and closure of the repair yards there. -- Beland 00:46, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
• There is an abandoned station, and I would figure a tunnel that connects Harvard Sq with Harvard Stadium (Closed in the 60's). This is probably one of them. See the Red Line wiki for more information. --96.233.27.39 (talk) 22:25, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

I think I found another tunnel too. If you're at the Inbound side of Chinatown(heading towards Oak Grove) walk down the platform towards where the front of the train would be... On the right, there's a gated door that shows another tunnel. When they were testing the Silver Line I kid you not I think I saw a Silver Line bus pull up down there. But nobody actually exited / came from down there. CaribDigita (talk) 04:03, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Addition suggestion

This article could benefit from would be a discussion of the governance of the MBTA. Right now, almost all content (excellent as it may be) is about the current and historical services it offered or absorbed, rather than how it was and is organized. Thoughts? 140.247.60.206 22:36, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

Please be bold and add what you know!

Atlant 22:56, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

Well at the helm you largely have D.A.G. (The G.M.) whom is the Chairman of the Board of Directors. From what I am told by others "around" the BoD is chosen by the current Governor? The BoD tends to be private sector affiliates of the Governor. (At least it has been in the past like the previous governor.) The GM works under contract to the state. I think DAG's is up next year??? So Deval would be free to choose who he wants next I believe since D.A.G. was chosen by Romney. Many of the top brass right now were transferred in from the Registry of Motor Vehicles. Try googling some things and you may be able to connect the dots. I can't say everything here... The Advisory Board acts on behalf of the wishes of the cities and towns that are part under representation to the MBTA. Next to the Advisory board you have the Budget dept. But above the GM you have Mr. Aloisi working as the state's Secretary of Transportation.(EOT) (Not actually a part of the Authority.) Down from the G.M. you have the directors of the various departments of the MBTA. From there I'm not sure because each department runs their department their own way and if you clash with these people look-out for retaliation. CaribDigita (talk) 18:05, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Museum

Is there an MBTA museum? I did not turn anything up in a brief search, but it seems odd there the oldest system in the country should not have one. Many other major systems, like the SFO cable cars, have museums. Heck, New York even has a museum with some MBTA cars. --Belg4mit 04:33, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Not that I know of, but there are historical cars at Boylston and some explanatory panels at Boylston, Park Street, Downtown Crossing, Davis Square, and perhaps other stations. -- Beland 14:04, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

The Seashore Trolley Museum in Kennebunk Maine has a lot of old MBTA artifacts including working streetcars and former subway cars and busses. One of the old trolleys in the Boylston station is owned by this museum. Parcanman (talk) 02:47, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

The Library on the second floor of the State Transportation Building keeps some historical info but I don't believe there is an actual museum. Most of the decommissioned stuff gets pitched, stored in some bus garage, or possibly turned into art if lucky. CaribDigita (talk) 18:13, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Buses as "Yellow Line"?

I have never once heard this term at all, and i've lived in or around Boston nearly all my life. To paraphrase 4chan, citation or it never happend, maybe? 72.74.17.70 00:18, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I've taken the T for over a decade and also have never heard it referred to as this. I've removed the reference until someone can dig up a citation (unlikely as that is). ChazBeckett 00:31, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Cough::horseshit.. The official words for the MBTA's bus system are as follows:

1. The Dirty Windows line
2. The Chronically Late line
3. The Tiny Seats for Tiny Asses line

Never the yellow line.--Loodog 03:23, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I've lived here all my life. It's never been called the Yellow Line. Neo16287 16:28, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

• (jumping on the band wagon) I've also lived here all my life. I have never heard of it being referred to as the "Yellow Line". --Mespinola 16:11, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

I have live just outside of Boston my whole life. The buses have (or used to have) a yellow line on the side of them. I have heard the term 'Yellow Line' multiple times. It's just like calling the Commuter Rail the 'Purple Line' ArcaneKnowledge (talk) 00:12, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Except I actually have heard the Commuter Rail called the Purple Line. The closest thing I can recall to buses being referred to as a yellow line was on a map back when bus and subway passes were separate (pre 2007). There were certain crosstown bus routes where a subway pass was valid, and (if memory is serving me correctly) there was some sort of a map associated with the subway pass that depicted CT1, CT2 and CT3 as yellow placed next to the subway lines. Mister Senseless™ (Speak - Contributions) 23:15, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

We never called the buses the "Yellow Line" at the MBTA. But I have heard the Commuter Rail referred to as the Purple Line even though the Commuter Rail is a completely separate company (MBCR) CaribDigita (talk) 01:06, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Sources for history

These might be useful to expand the histories of this article or more likely subarticles. -- Beland 00:54, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

• Streetcar Suburbs: The Process of Growth in Boston, 1870-1900, by Sam Bass Warner, Jr.
• [3] - list of agencies
• [4] - electric railway map
• [5] - list of interurbans
• [6] - obscure bus lines
• [7] - BSRA
  • [8] - Publications directory
  • [9] - BSRA publications

Station Infoboxes

I've been doing infobox projects for rapid transit station articles in BART, DART and Miami Metrorail over the past three weeks. I've expanded into MBTA articles recently. Since I'm not able to do all the work due to time constraints, any help on adding station infoboxes to the other rapid transit MBTA station articles would be much appreciated. Examples of these can be found in Boston North Station, Boston South Station, Government Center (MBTA station) and Downtown Crossing (MBTA station). I prefer the line descripts in the boxes be styled like I have them (color-coded). Thanks. Any other info and corrections would help as well. GETONERD84 13:27, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Why don't you give the overall length of the system? How in heck can you judge a system without that?

OT: BAT

This is a little off-topic, but I'm rather surprised nobody's written anything about the BAT, given the proximity and overlapping service area. --Belg4mit 00:10, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

There are a few private semi-private/public carriers which still exist in Mass. The BAT for Brockton is one of them.... There's also one for Lexington that comes to mind...[10] Also one in Worcester[11] and I think Haverhill[12] too also each have one... The name of another system which doesn't quickly come to mind right now-- I believe that Fitchburg also had one planned a few years ago also. It would be tough to single out the BAT. The Ferry service by the T- is also a private venture as are the 13 (or-so) private coach lines that partner with the T. I think it is a slippery slope. If I were you I would just leave the T article with the tone that the T- is not the only public transportation provider in Mass. As seen here [13]

CaribDigita 03:06, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

The link I added on the MBTA Advisory Board will show what I mean... See this page [14] Those are other Mass. Agencies that are pretty-much on par with the MBTA. They're missing some though. (Unless they're only focusing on Eastern MA.) CaribDigita 03:15, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Other images, keep in this article, or move to Commons?

Today, I placed in the infobox at the top of this page what basically amounts to a single photograph (using 9 photos combined into one) showing (or attempting to show) all of the services offered by the MBTA (except for Boat). Similar pictures were placed in the infoboxes for Metropolitan Transportation Authority (New York) and New Jersey Transit; the common link between these two and the MBTA (and SEPTA, which will have one placed there soon) is that they are all multimodal agencies with at least three modes. But should other images be moved to the Commons instead of being listed, as the infobox picture (a 3072 x 2304 image) shows all of the services---subway lines, bus, BRT, and light rail---except for aforementioned MBTA Boat? --AEMoreira042281 (talk) 19:39, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

So I think a problem is that the picture of the Blue Line features the old cars which are no longer used in regular service. Can you swap in a picture with the new cars?165.82.82.22 (talk) 17:48, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Picture project

I am starting a project of taking pictures of inside and outside of every T station I have time for, starting with the Red Line.

I don't have time to edit Wikipedia entries, upload the pictures and so on. So I will post them at MBTA.orazine.net.

All pictures will be\are under GNU license.

Thanks, David Orazine 96.237.72.72 (talk) 02:10, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Please make it clear that you are licensing them under the GFDL license. --agr (talk) 03:22, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, they will be under whatever license lets them get uploaded to Wikipedia, since that is the whole point. So now on they are officially under the GFDL, I will wave the website reflecting this shortly.

Thanks, David Orazine --96.237.72.72 (talk) 14:45, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Jan 27 2009: There's no discussion or pointer to the 2008 MIT undergrad's hack of the magstripe used by MBTA. This made it onto the Defcon 2008 DVD, but the students were barred from actually presenting it to the audience by an injunction filed by MBTA. EFF is fighting this right now.

Thanks, David Small davetracer@aol.com 67.190.176.98 (talk) 00:42, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

It probably could go in the article CharlieCard. And possibly- in the article of the manufacturer of the CharlieCard. CaribDigita (talk) 02:06, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

New Weekday Ridership All-Time Record

Pages should probably be updated.

"The Massachusetts Bay Transportation Agency says the transit system recorded an average 1.28 million passenger trips on weekdays in 2008, the highest ridership total ever and a 4.3 percent increase over the previous year. "

Article: http://www1.whdh.com/news/articles/local/BO103174/

Datadyne007 (talk) 06:58, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Capital improvements section

the Capital improvements section is kind of a mess. if anyone is looking at this page meerly to find out information about, say, when the green line is going to be extended they can't eaisly. Im going ot reorganize it into a layout that highlights the plans for each line as oposed to what the funding is coming from for the project. If anyone dissagrees let me know.--Found5dollar (talk) 15:09, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

MassTrans?

What's the deal with that? Is it still in proposal or will MassTrans replace teh MBTA? More mention of this in the article is needed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.107.238.158 (talk) 21:12, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

This "MassTrans" or "DOT" proposal (et al) would be a *return* of the MBTA to the state. The MBTA was a state agency previously. However, after intense pressure from people in western Massachusetts; the MBTA was told to learn how to support itself financially. Many western Massachusetts residents felt that they shouldn't have to financially support the MBTA with their taxes (since it doesn't really travel out there.) They had a valid point. So, reforms by previous governors turned the MBTA and Turnpike into "Quasi-state agencies", as are their official status. Hence, the fare increases and toll hikes over the years. The MBTA has since sold-off as much as it could. All that now remains either: land, air rights, or right-of-way licensing agreements. Not a great deal is known about the exact structure as of yet. And with the state taking back-over, the legislature will probably have to hammer all that out. And you can bet all of the cities and towns on the T's advisory board will seek to put their $0.02 in too. I know Dan had a contract, but Deval is really going to be hard pressed to reform all of this in an election year (15 months to-go), and with limited state budget. The other problem the governor will face is since the pension reform plan cut-off last June, many of the MBTA's very knowledgeable top brass (which had enough time-in) retired out of the system. People that know how the MBTA used to operate going all the way back (to say) the 1980s. I wish the governor well but, the only person *I* can think of who could get him out of this bind would be perhaps Michael Dukakis? He knows the state like the back of his hand and is a well known advocate of quality state transportation. Who really knows if Dukakis would ever want to take-on this task for a few years. CaribDigita (talk) 03:03, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Cities of the Underworld? Claim about New York subway.

Does anyone else watch Cities of the Underworld on the History Channel? The reason I ask there was an episode I saw either this month (July '09) or the previous month. The episode(I think) was either about New York City or secret societies in New York City. Anyway within one of those episodes in question, they hurl a claim that they found an old bricked over portion of NYC subway that is even older than the London subway? They say it was a part of the Long Island Railway which had been recessed below Brooklyn. This rail line then terminated just blocks away from the East river. I didn't hear the exact claim, but in any case I think the claim about Boston being the oldest could be in conflict with this. I don't have the DVD-set. Therefore I can't verify the claim right away for verbatim accuracy and for scrutiny against doublespeak. Does anyone else have a copy on hand? or have witnessed this themselves before? According to Tivo the index of upcoming episodes, these two are not in the History Channel line-up for at least the next week or two at least. CaribDigita (talk) 00:14, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Can a tunnel without stations, regardless of antiquity, compete with the Boston or London subways as a subway? I don't have the answer to that, but you can learn a lot about the Cobble Hill Tunnel from its article on WP (and the included links). It is undoubtedly the place you heard about. In fact, the article mentions the History Channel series. Hertz1888 (talk) 00:54, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Hertz1888. I believe that is the tunnel I was referring to. In the episode they said there was a (possible) single-platform station located at terminus of the subterranean track. The reason I say possible is a member of the group which found the tunnel stated that the source documents (which told them of the existence of the tunnel), went on to say that the criminal underworld in the past utilized a station in that tunnel. Further, the source says there is supposed to be a locomotive that was bricked-up inside the actual station. As of the episode it was inconclusive since they didn't get past the second brick wall. Now I know Wikipedia is clear on rumour and speculation WP:Sources and WP:CRYSTAL, so I think the "Oldest Subway in America" is safe at this point. However if the station is proven, do you think it could make this claim by the MBTA questionable? To my mind, I thought maybe the part about being the oldest subway could be secured by something like" The oldest known subway system in America, which has been in continuous operation." With a second ref. to that Cobble Hill if the second station is proven? Actually, step one perhaps I should look up a few dictionaries to see if there is a basic criteria for being a "subway". e.g. two or more stations or something. As that would stop this dead in its tracks and make this easily a non-starter. CaribDigita (talk) 15:52, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Greetings, CD. There are many legends about that tunnel, but I didn't find anything in the article or its sources about one station, let alone two. Someday, if the closed-off portion is excavated, we may find out whether the locomotive is real, and maybe even one station. It doesn't strike me as likely to usurp the T's place in history, but we'll see. Hertz1888 (talk) 04:18, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Link suggestion(s)

I know blogs are generally frowned-upon given a blog can say just about anything. This one however might be one to consider. The official state blog on transportation transportation.blog.state.ma.us. CaribDigita (talk) 16:38, 26 August 2009 (UTC)