Talk:Max Planck Society Archive

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Friends, please allow me to address two issues:

1. Some of the material on this page may "not be very clear" or may be "confusing".[edit]

Indeed, many people will find the discussion "unclear" or "confusing". This cannot be helped too much because several related topics are relevant. Thus "Modal logic", "Temporal logic", "Predicate logic", "First-order logic", "Continuity", historiography (Lucy Dawidowicz), etc. as well as references to books and issues associated with Jan T. Gross, and historically relevant persons such as Hannah Arendt, Symon Petlilura, Denikin, Bandara, etc. This covers material most readers would have difficulty with. I try to simplify as much as I can. One way I do this is to use Wikilinks as much as possible. I personally do not know any way to simplify the material, except the usual way: the reader simply never learns about these related subjects (ie: the reader doesn't read the page). I say this sadly, not out of any feeling of "superiority" or snobbishness. I believe I have made the material as simple as anyone can.

2. Notability.[edit]

Is this page important? Indeed, I have spent a great deal of time on this material as I think it is essential in explaining issues many people have found very significant. Thus Hannah Arendt has written about this, as has Lucy Dawidowicz and Jan T. Gross, Taras Shevchenko, Shevchenko's poem "Haidamacky", etc (hence the Wikilinks to these people or this work). This page is used in quite a few other pages as it is or direct relevance to the subject matter. Thus why have historians (more than one) found historical records censored at the Max Planck Society Archive? Why have historians such as Casper Ericksen found historical records censored at the National Archive of Namibia? Why has Hannah Arendt found a historical link between German South West Africa (now Namibia) and the archives of the Third Reick stored at the Max Planck Society Archive? I could go on and on, but while some people would disagree with what is written on this page, they will find that I have used quotes from notable people: my views are not the views of some crank: too many well know historians have written about these related subjects, too many Wikilinks already exist.

If there are specific issues, please address them to me and I will continue to do my best to deal with them. Virago250 (talk) 01:50, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

You've alerted us to some important issues and you have used sources which mostly appear to be reliable. But the way they are currently used isn't going to get people reading and understanding. What I intend to do with this article is to merge it into Max Planck Society. The question of the society's archive can become a paragraph in that article. Then readers are much more likely to see it and read it. After all, some of this is basic moral reasoning. You don't have to understand much logic to know that it is wrong to cover up Nazi atrocities. (I'm not saying that that has definitely happened, but even the suggestion that it has happened is notable, and many people would wish to be alerted to the suggestion, with some references so that they can investigate further.) Itsmejudith (talk) 08:27, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
I have now found my way, unfortunately only on Google Books preview to Gretchen E. Schafft, From racism to genocide, University of Illinois Press. This looks to be another extremely good source. I can only see a snippet of what she says about archive restriction, but it is definitely there. If someone who has access to the whole book could add from what she says, and if we can summarise Jeremy Sarkin's comments as well, then we have some well sourced material to include in the encyclopedia. I see this as "breaking history", the truth eventually coming out, and some brave scholars determined to dig it out. All we can do is reflect their work, and we are bound to be a little behind them. But it is worth doing properly. I am keeping the merge proposal open, as I think this belongs as a section in Max Planck Society in the first instance. But it is possible that there is enough for a breakout article to be created. Not under exactly this title, though. Itsmejudith (talk) 09:39, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Merge discussion[edit]

Propose merge to Max Planck Society. Information about the archive is part of information about the society. Some material may be recuperable for historiography and some for Lucy Davidowicz. Itsmejudith (talk) 12:38, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

The Max Planck Society and the difficulties in accessing materials allegedly stored in the Max Planck Society Archive are hardly congruous topics. Users who seek to find out about the Max Planck Society may not be interested in the difficulties encountered by historians in working with the Max Planck Society archive; conversely, users who seek to discover issues related to the censorship engaged in at the Max Planck Society Archive will be infuriated to find they have instead reached an article about the Max Planck Society itself.

What is to be gained by merging these two disparate topics?

Furthermore, a critique about the Max Planck Society Archive as discussed by historians with the different and unrelated subject of the Max Planck Society would confuse the numerous links made by related Wikipedia articles that reference Research Materials: Max Planck Society Archive. It has also already been suggested that ItsmeJudith use the 'What links here' tool to anticipate the disruption that could occur if these two articles (already unsuitable) were joined together.Virago250 (talk) 08:38, 25 December 2011 (UTC)


I can't find this term in any of the references given. Could "diachronic" be meant? Itsmejudith (talk) 19:55, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Antisemitism in Poland[edit]

Aside from this being completely off-topic, which it is, it seems to be a perpetuating a nationalistic stereotype to claim that Poland has essentially more antisemitism than other countries do. This is not to minimise antisemitism in Poland or elsewhere. I don't think it is sufficiently supported by the sources given. I am therefore taking it out completely. Please don't re-add it without full discussion. Itsmejudith (talk) 20:11, 27 December 2011 (UTC)