Talk:Mehmed the Conqueror

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Attribution to Muhammad[edit]

The article currently contains the line: "Reference is made to the prospective conquest of Constantinople in a hadith (a saying attributed to the Prophet Muhammad): "Verily you shall conquer Constantinople. What a wonderful leader will he be, and what a wonderful army will that army be!"" I don't agree that this needs to be included. There is no certainty that Muhammad actually said such a thing; and if he did then it is not clear to me what relevance it has to the rest of the story of Mehmed II? Surely there is a risk of WP:SYNTHESIS here? If Mehmed had referred to the hadith during his conquest, then arguably it might have some resonance. Otherwise as we have it, it just implies that Muhammad predicted the fall of Constantinople (a lucky guess if true), and that Mehmed fulfilled a divinely ordained plan (of which there is no evidence to suggest that was the case). Contaldo80 (talk) 09:56, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

The way it's stated in the article now the quotation indeed doesn't make too much sense, and the source given is certainly not a reliable one. But there does seem to be solid sourceable information to confirm that the existence of the hadith is relevant for the sultan's life, since in his own time Islamic commentators and historians connected the conquest with the hadith, and its existence served as a piece of ideological justification for his conquests. There's something about it in Babinger (p.85); some more here. Fut.Perf. 20:51, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. It seems reasonable to me to include the quote if indeed there is supporting evidence as you say to suggest that contemporaries had made a clear link betwen the hadith and Mehmed's action. Perhaps someone could please amend the text to address this, otherwise I suggest we simply remove - because at the moment it sits very oddly. Contaldo80 (talk) 12:20, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
As discussed above I'm going to take this quote out until we are better able to contextualise it. Very happy for it to go back once someone introduces some wider sources to connect the hadith directly to Mehmed. Thanks. Contaldo80 (talk) 08:04, 11 June 2013 (UTC)