Talk:Melungeon

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Paul Heinegg[edit]

There are too many different arguments going on. His research used historic documents to trace back from particular families; he found many of the ancestors of free people of color listed in the VA, NC and SC censuses of 1790-1810, could be traced to the colonial era in VA, and unions of white women with African men. Some descendants of those families moved on into TN And KY and are included in Jack Goins' study - which was for descendants of families for which there was a consensus that these constituted Melungeon surnames, as mentioned in this article. Heinegg's research was in historic documents.

No there is no names in Paul Heinegg's books that goes to Melungeon familes, please reply back with the names specifically or where Melungeon is specifically mentioned in the Paul Heinegg's references. The DNA testing in the Melungeon project concluded the Bunch family called Melungeon was unrelated to the Bertie county Bunch family.

To go further into this, we can use a Federal Cherokee enrollment process as a example, just because a person moved to Oaklahoma does not mean they was Cherokee or related to Cherokee ancestry, a person would have to show where their ancestor was specifically called Cherokee. The same goes for this.

Here is prime examples:

Vardeman Collins Unknown Origin R1a1a Valentine Collins, b.@1786, Wilkes Co., NC Unknown Origin E1b1a

That is from the Melungeon dna project....clearly those 2 is not related..clearly not brothers. Vardy collins was specifically named Melungeon, Valentine was never associated with Melngeon people. People claimed he was Vardy's brother and that was why people thought Valentine was a Melungeon. DNA clearly shows this was not the case.

Samuel Bunch, b. ca. 1814, d. June 2, 1865, Sneedville,Tenn Unknown Origin R1b1a2a1a1b4 Henry Bunch, Bertie Co., NC Unknown Origin E1b1a8a

Clearly unrelated also, Samuel Bunch was the named Melungeon of Newman's ridge, Tenn...Originally thought to been descended from Henry Bunch...however again DNA showed they was unrelated.

Here is Paul Heinegg's own words about the Bunch family and that he only used guess work about the Virginia Bunch family having African ancestry and not to use African ancestry as fact: http://www.afrigeneas.com/forum-fpoc/index.cgi/md/read/id/6820/sbj/to-paul-heinegg/

DNA has now confirmed the Bertie county Bunch family and the Melungeon Bunch family was two different unrelated families.

In the Joshua F. PERKINS vs John R. WHITE court case we learn what Free person of color is:

"Persons that are known and recognized by the Constitution and laws of Tennessee, as free persons of color are those who by the act of 1794 section 32 are taken and deemed to be capable in law to be certified in any case what is in, except against each other or in the language of the statute " all Negroes, Indians, Mulattoes, and all persons of mixed blood descended from Negro or Indian ancestors to the third generation inclusive though one ancestor of each generation may have been a white person, white bond or free". The statute includes as examples those only who are either of the Negro or the Indian blood or mixture of both and who a fall within the third generation inclusive. To make one then a free person of color, 1/8 of his or her entire blood must be either of the Negro or of the Indian race or a mixture of the two amounting to 1/8." July 1858 Judge J. M. Welcher

http://jctcuzins.org/pam/perkins/jury.html

Josh Perkins who did lose the above case did not have DNA at the time however now we do have DNA and here is what his DNA results shows, which was included in the Melungeon DNA project: Esther Perkins 1710-1748 Unknown Origin I1

I1 happens to be a European Haplogroup which is also found in Portugal. The Newspaper article on the Jogg article did mention the Perkins vs White court case however it did not also mention Joshua Perkins' DNA was included in the study and had came back as European.

Proposed merge with Melungeon DNA Project[edit]

This seems to be mainly about Melungeons, not the project. Dougweller (talk) 17:25, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Support. I would agree. It's of no real scientific significance that would justify its existence as a separate article, and can easily become a section of this article.20:35, 7 September 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pokey5945 (talkcontribs)
Support. Non-notable project, loaded with information of dubious scientific value. Bms4880 (talk) 21:43, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
Oppose. The Melungeon DNA project certainly relates to the Melungeons, and it's appropriate that the two articles are linked to each other. But one deals with the history of an ethnic group over the last several centuries, whereas the other is about a specific study of that group, using technology that has existed only recently. They're separate topics that warrant separate articles. Furthermore, it's a red herring to talk about the "scientific significance" of the project, because its significance is meant to be historical, not scientific. In other words, it's an application of molecular biology to get historical insight, rather than any attempt to expand the field of molecular biology itself. TypoBoy (talk) 13:27, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
It's a pseudo-scientific application of DNA techniques to make historical claims that are of dubious and contested validity. In other words, it fits right in with Melungeon studies in general.Pokey5945 (talk) 20:09, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
Support. Not notable enough to warrant a separate article. Bms4880 (talk) 20:20, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

This page has been extensively edited during my illness which resulted in the emphasis on Melungeons instead of Melungeon DNA, the original focus. I do think this page needs to be a stand alone page separate from the Melungeon page. It will take some additions and some subtractions to return to what this page needs to be. Please bear with me. Emuchick 3 February 2014 Emuchick (talk) 02:40, 4 February 2014 (UTC)Emuchick (talk) 02:42, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Oppose. Keep the Melungeon DNA Project separate, but linked. The Melungeon article keeps getting swamped with legends and myths.Parkwells (talk) 23:37, 4 February 2014 (UTC)
Oppose The Melungeon article is long enough on its own. Best to keep them linked, but separate. Jgera5 (talk) 15:03, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
Oppose These should be kept separate, with a brief section the the DNA article written according to WP:SUMMARY/. Dougweller (talk) 15:47, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

Roanoke Lost Colony[edit]

The Lost Colony DNA Project is separate from the main article: Roanoke Colony so maybe the Melungeon DNA article should be separate from the main Melungeon article as well. I agree that the current Melungeon DNA article is useless but maybe someone who knows more about DNA and genetics that I do could rewrite it. Risssa (talk) 00:55, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Possibly Gypsies?[edit]

The Harvard Encyclopedia of American Ethnic Groups says: "…it has been suggested that the Melungeons of Tennessee may be of Romani ancestry." Historian932 (talk) 13:58, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

Just like many of the other romantic origins theories, it's pure speculation, with no evidence at all.Pokey5945 (talk) 19:54, 28 October 2013 (UTC)