|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Mephisto (comics) article.|
|WikiProject Comics / Marvel||(Rated C-class, Mid-importance)|
|WikiProject Fictional characters||(Rated C-class)|
- 1 Origin citation
- 2 Can someone please add this?
- 3 Stats from Marvel RPG (?)
- 4 Infiniti
- 5 Origin
- 6 Minor Cleanup
- 7 Japanese Dracula Cartoon
- 8 Alternate Form
- 9 SHB Image
- 10 These stupid edit wars
- 11 Vote for the image. Please indicate why.
- 12 Creator artist?
- 13 How the SHB guidelines fit into the image debate
- 14 Video Game Appearances
- 15 Tidy-Up
It was actually Doctor Strange Annual #2 (1992) that gave that origin for Mephisto as from a collection of evil energy.
Can someone please add this?
- The Fantastic Four's Thing signed a contract in Secret Wars II #8 with Mephisto. Should this be added to the section that describes the long-term problems Mephisto has caused? —Preceding unsigned comment added by DigitizerSF (talk • contribs) 19:29, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
- Hardly a long term problem - Mephisto destroyed it in the same issue. Timrollpickering (talk) 12:50, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
Stats from Marvel RPG (?)
Real Name: Unrevealed, “Mephisto” short for “Mephistopheles”, is a name given to him by human beings who believed him to be the legendary Satan
Occupation: Ruler of an extra dimensional land of the dead, sometimes called “Hell” or “Hades”
Known Relatives: Mephista (daughter), Blackheart (son)
Group Affiliation: None
Height: Variable, usually 6'6
Weight: Variable, usually 310 pounds
Hair: Variable, usually Red
Eyes: Variable, usually White with no visible pupils
Distinguishing Physical Traits: Mephisto possesses inhuman features including pointed ears, sharpened canine teeth, elongated and pointed fingernails, and red skin all in his usual form.
Intelligence: Gifted(significantly above averge IQ and creative talents)
Strength: Incalculable(can military press well over 100 tons, upper limit is unknown)
Speed: Enhanced Human(40-65 miles per hour)
Stamina: Immeasurable(muscles generate absolutely no fatigue toxins)
Durability: Godlike(practically invulnerable to all conventional injury)
Agility: Enhanced Human(beyond the natural limits of the human body)
Reflexes: Enhanced Human(beyond the natural limits of the human body)
Special Skills: Mephisto is exceptionally cunning and adapt at manipulating other beings to do his bidding or simply for his own amusement, even without using his powers. Mephisto also possesses vast knowledge of mystical and arcane lore
Special Notes: Mephisto's vitality is dependent upon the dimension in which he rules. His abilities will steadily weaken the longer he remains outside of it's borders to a certain minimum, so he generally remains within his realm and sends demonic agents to do his bidding. However, even at his weakest, Mephisto is far more powerful than any ordinary human being.
- It's Infiniti, who is also known as Nemesis. Infinity is a separate entity altogether.
Should the Mephisto's claim to having been created by the Infinity being be taken as fact since his character is meant to be a liar and he has been given a number of different origins?
- I agree. It should at least be stated that his origin is disputed as he habitually lies ala the Joker (who's origin he's not even sure of). It is highly likely he stated he was created by Infiniti/Nemesis so he could get close to Thanos to steal the Infinity Gauntlet. In fact, he attempts to do it later in the mini-series.
Have dealt with the origin question; added some better pictures including the Silver Surfer cover; added correct dates and tidied up spelling and grammar. Have also deleted the reference to Mephisto as a demon as this may not be true. All that is known is that he is a force of evil. Hope it helps.
Asgardian 00:48, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
Pulled some of the claims in Video as they are not sourced and therefore just hearsay.
Asgardian 10:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
Umm, The Official Marvel Universe Handbooks are very clear that Mephisto IS a demon (Class II) and the comics themselves call him one. Granted, Marvel's definitions of what a demon is seem a little loose (see Demons entry in the OHOTMU) but the fact he's obviously a sop for Satan is apparent (note that Marvel has flip-flopped on admitting whether there is a real Satan in their universe several times.) -Wilfredo Martinez 18:50, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
Japanese Dracula Cartoon
As Satan, Mephisto appeared in the Harmony Gold Dracula cartoon adaptation.
14:58, 2 November 2006 (UTC)Enda80
Mephisto has another form, that of a lizard-like creature with dreadlock-like hair. This form has appeared in both the JRJR/Nocenti and Kevin Smith Daredevil runs, and possibly elsewhere, so should an image of this form be included on the page? Kelvingreen 17:24, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
I have reverted the image back to Image:Mephistomarvel3.png. The problem that I have with Image:Thor-205.jpg is that Thor the most prominent object in the image, not Mephisto. This is in conflict with the WikiProject Comics editorial guidelines. I don't mind if you use a cover scan, but it should be one which features Mephisto more prominently. --GentlemanGhost 12:13, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
- I'm okay with your image or the Silver Surfer #3 image. Yours actually shows a better view of the character. While trying to get people to stop screwing up the date, I set it back on the SS image so they can see that it says DEC, not October. Doczilla 06:16, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
I have changed the image back to Image:Mephistomarvel3.png. Much better display of Mephisto, and the Silver Surfer cover is being used in the Silver Surfer article. -- DCincarnate 07:52, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
These stupid edit wars
Look at that cover! Silver Surfer #3 clearly says DEC under the number. It's a trivial detail, but its change (from December back to October) among the rest of these reversions makes me wonder how many of you are seriously trying to end this edit war or if it's just one big "pissing contest" while people fight for the sheer sake of trying to get their own way by seeing who's stubborn enough to outlast the others. Are you reading the edit summaries? Are you actually looking at what the other editors have done, or do you just look to see how much red shows up when you compare the current version to the last version you personally posted? Doczilla 05:42, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
- Actually, I've been impressed that both sides have basically left me alone while I attempt to weave together a "best of both" version with additional edits. If the main remaining disagreement is simply to revert the image back and forth now, well, there are worse things if the article can otherwise achieve some stability. The danger lies even in that, though, is the possibility that an ongoing disagreement over an image can lead to additional edit warring. Just don't start reverting all other edits that have happened since the last time you changed the image. How about we vote over the image? Doczilla 06:43, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
Vote for the image. Please indicate why.
Silver Surfer #3
What's the source of this image?
Both present fairly appropriate views. The lower image actually gives a better look at the character's upper body, and it doesn't have other characters in the way. The upper image is historically important as the cover when the character debuted, and it shows more of the character (down onto upper legs). Let's vote and stick with one. I don't personally care which you go with. I just needed to cite Silver Surfer #3 this week to get people to stop reverting the month. Doczilla 06:51, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
- Tentative abstention. If we don't get a source for the lower image, I'll have to vote for the SS#3 cover. Otherwise, I simply abstain. Doczilla 06:57, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
- Or maybe we don't need a vote now that people have stopped reverting the image. Doczilla 19:21, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
- Hopefully not. But, just in case, I have a slight (very slight) preference for the lower image for the sole reason that it is the correct color. --GentlemanGhost 20:36, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
- The Silver Surfer #3 cover may be historically important, but it's not a good display of the character. And if you look at WP:CMC/EG and see the rules about the picture you can see this part of rule 2 which says: Colouring should be neutral - pictures which have a heavy colour cast, or otherwise depict the character with false colours should not be uploaded unless the cast has been removed first. So the image does in fact violate the rules set up about SHBs. -- DCincarnate 21:20, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
- I vote for the Silver Surfer #3 cover, because pages that have a comic cover for their main image visually look a lot better than ones that don't. If the other image was used the article would look more like a fan page than an encyclopedia article. And for the whole colour cast thing that DCincarnate mentions, I thought Mephisto had been used in varying shades of the red/yellow/orange. -Freak104 16:14, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
- Other than this cover, I've never seen him colored yellow or orange. If you do an image search on Google, the vast majority of images come up as red. (I didn't look through every single image, but I didn't find any exceptions.) --GentlemanGhost 22:29, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
- No, Mephisto has never been colored yellow/orange. -- DCincarnate 05:18, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
- Never been coloured red? He's red in every appearance! I vote for SS #3. -- Asgardian 10:17, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
- Oops, sorry about that. -- DCincarnate 13:33, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
- Thank you for disucssing this instead of merely reverting. At the moment, it seems we are evenly split. (The first image has been sourced, so that means Doczilla abstains - unless he wants to change his mind.) I've been trying to stay out of these SHB image battles (I think I avoided the one for Basilisk (comics)). However, in this case, I do feel that the yellow color is misleading. I'm not sure what the objection is to the first image (word balloons? not a cover?), but maybe we could find yet another image? I know that we've tried four already. I have no problem with using a cover per se, as long as Mephisto is the dominant figure and he is colored red. --GentlemanGhost 16:13, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
- Do we have a consensus on something for the SHB?
- Asgardian 05:37, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
- It doesn't seem like it. We seem to be evenly split. DCincarnate and I are in favor of TA13 whereas you and Freak104 are in favor of SS3. Doczilla is abstaining (he reaffirms this in the section below). The main thing I don't like about TA13 is that it seems to be a low quality scan. On my computer, this is a line of discoloration running across his chest. It doesn't spoil it, but it's not great either. On the other hand, I am not bothered by the word balloon or that the image is not from a cover. It does bother me, however, that the SS3 image is yellow. But, if someone's handy with Photoshop and can change the color cast to red, I would happily consent to this image. Failing that, maybe another image is needed. --GentlemanGhost 21:52, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
The article says Sal Buscema was the artist co-creator but the SHB credits John Buscema for the cover. Is that right? It's possible, but it could also be a mistake. Doczilla 19:21, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
How the SHB guidelines fit into the image debate
Rule 1 at WP:CMC/EG#Superhero_box_images no longer applies now that we have source information on both pictures.
Rule 2 has six bullet points, two of which aren't really relevant. Look at the other 4:
Re: "The ideal image is a full-body, three-quarter picture of the character standing straight with no background, with a facing-the-camera or profile picture as the next-best." SS3 has the advantage. The TA13 pic stops at the waist and Mephisto is not standing straight. The SS3 pic goes onto upper legs and Mephisto is standing straight. SS3 wins.
Re: "If a full-body shot is unavailable, the picture must show the whole of the head and torso (or the equivalent for non-humanoid characters)." Both have problems. On the SS3 cover, Mephisto's hand and the Silver Surfer block part of the view. However, the TA13 pic does not go as far down the torso. Personaly I think SS3 has the sliver of an advantage here because the portions that are blocked are blocked in a way that let the reader accurately fill in the gaps, whereas for all you know in the TA13 picture, Mephiso is naked except for his cape.
Re: "Pictures which hide significant areas of the character in shadow should be avoided" Both pictures have shadow on the upper body, but not shadows that actually hide. Arguably, they accent his appearance as a standard feature of the character. No winner.
Re: "Colouring should be neutral - pictures which have a heavy colour cast, or otherwise depict the character with false colours should not be uploaded unless the cast has been removed first." Mephisto is not yellow. TA13 wins.
So for rule 2, I think SS3 has a sliver of an advantage.
Rule 3 pushes it in the other direction, though:
Re: "Pictures which have more characters and/or objects than the subject of the article should only be used if the subject is the most prominent object - editing the picture, by cropping, obscuring and/or painting out the other characters may help to ensure this." SS3 is technically sufficient, but TA13 clearly fits this requirement better because it has no other characters at all. TA13 wins this point. Doczilla 08:23, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
- As I laid all that out above, rule 3 would seem to tip the scale in favor of the TA13, but the more I think about it, the more it bugs me how Mephisto looks like he could be a nudist with a cape. So I'll give SS3 more than a sliver of advantage on that piece of rule 2, not quite balancing the scale but reaffirming my original abstention. (Well, that didn't help you a whole heap, did it?) Surely there's an image out there somewhere that's better than either of these two. Doczilla 11:35, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
- FYI, I put the TA13 image back in to the article because it got tagged as an orphan by BetacommandBot (talk · contribs). The SS3 image is used in another article, so it is safe from this bot. If we decide not to use TA13, it will be orphaned again, but I thought it best to preserve the image for now until we reach consensus. --GentlemanGhost 21:40, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
Video Game Appearances
OK...the lead has been reworked in line with an agreement at Wikicomics; the new appearances are all there - with proper dates - but are neatly threaded so it doesn't read like the usual "tell the story" with so and so doing this and this. There is now a logical sequence, as we start with the prime foes (the Surfer and Thor) and then look at the other appearances. Also placed the mention of his realm in the second half of the first sentence in FCB. Also added a few precursors as the layman may not know what the Surfer, Dracula and Topaz are. Also trimmed Notable Aliases as four is plenty: no need for every name! It now looks pretty sharp. Thank you for the new entries.