|This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:|
- 1 meta - wikipedia
- 2 Restructure meta, meta- and metacorder
- 3 Removed recent unsourced paragrah
- 4 Question as a caption?
- 5 Meta does not mean about
- 6 Meta ions?
- 7 Metabolism
- 8 Etymology section
- 9 Metaplacebo
- 10 "metadata are data about data"
- 11 Metapod
- 12 question,about the name [meta].
- 13 Proposal to include a history of meta/first recorded use of each meta-X.
- 14 με λενε σονια
- 15 New contemporary usage
- 16 Removed "CHANGE" from greek meaining of the word.
meta - wikipedia
I think the statement under the heading "Traditional Meaning" ("In Greek, the prefix meta- is generally less esoteric than in English; Greek meta- is equivalent to the Latin words post- or ad-") is not correct.
Meta in classical Greek (in contrast to its quite different use in modern Greek) is not equivalent to the Latin post- or ad-. The primary meaning of meta in ancient Greek is not "after" or "toward" but "in the midst of, among, between". It has a number of different meanings, depending on context, the case of object when used as a preposition, and so forth. Only one of these (and a tertiary one not often found in Greek classical literature at that) is even approximately synonymous with the Latin post or ad.
See the Lidell and Scott Greek Dictionary definition of μετά for an authoritative reference.
I have not attempted to do any editing here at this time, only to post this comment for discussion.
Hopefully someone with deeper knowledge of ancient Greek than mine will step in.
However, if no one does, I may eventually venture an edit on my own, but only after a bit more research on the matter.
One reason why this is relevant is the commonly repeated statement that Aristotle's "Metaphysics" was originally named such simply because it was "after the physics." See, for example, the Wikipedia article on metaphysics. This notion is based the supposed equivalence of meta with the Latin post -- clearly, at best, a greatly over-simplified (if not downright wrong) assumption, per Liddel and Scott.
The first sentence of the second paragraph of the introduction needed to aspire to better grammatical number agreement. Prior to my edit it read:
- "For example, metadata is data about data (who has produced them, when, what format the data are in and so on)."
I've gone ahead and changed it to read:
- "For example, metadata are data about data (who has produced them, when, what format the data are in and so on)."
which is my preferred solution. Another solution would be:
- "For example, metadata is data about data (who has produced it, when, what format the data is in and so on)."
I searched the Oxford English Dictionary Online for "metaposting" and "metanomic", but neither word was included. Also, neither word returned more than a thousand results on google. I felt that such esoteric words should be removed, so I did. Tigerford (talk) 18:58, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
What word or prefix can mean the opposite of meta? I am looking for a word that might be analagous to this> "micro" is to "macro" as "x" is to "meta" Any ideas? Katyism 20:18, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
- If you look at some old versions of the page with the stuff deleted below, you'll see that Rucker has proposed "kata" (greek "down", contrast with meta=after) for something like this, but he's pretty alone. Since "meta" usually refers to some sort of abstraction, the opposite would be something like "concrete" or "literal".--Homunq 10:23, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
I thought this word ment "beyond". Is there any suport for that?
This is inscrutable stuff:
We read: Meta a direction orthogonal to x,y and z. So it's singular. Meta is the axes formed by what Rucker and others often refer to as Ana and Kata. So it's plural. Which? And who "Rucker and others", and in what context?
We read: Data about or processes operating on in the Hypercomputing Dictionary. Data about what, and processes operating on what? And what's the "Hypercomputing Dictionary"?
We read: To 'go meta' is to step orthogonally to the situation in order to grok additional layers of information that are affecting the decision making process. What does "step orthogonally to the situation" mean? -- Hoary 06:22, 2005 Apr 29 (UTC)
- No answer yet, so I'm deleting this material. -- Hoary 12:32, 2005 May 5 (UTC)
I have a suspicion that the use of this prefix to indicate an extra layer of description was introduced by Douglas Hofstadter in his book [Godel Escher Bach] - does anyone know if it was used this way earlier? It certainly popularised it anyway. Theusername 13:29, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
- Certainly not! The OED cites usage in this manner from as far back as 1941. --dmd 02:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Restructure meta, meta- and metacorder
I've had a look at these three articles. Theres a confusion in that there wasn't a clear distinction between disambiguation and article (somewhat appropriately for a meta-subject!)
The article on meta- was intended to be disambiguation but this was very blurry, many "meta" words don't have a hyphen.
So I have split it this way:
- Meta (disambiguation) covers all disambiguation aspects
- Meta explains the term and its meaning.
- Meta- is a redirect page
- Metacorder is merged into meta (as per talk:Metacorder).
Removed recent unsourced paragrah
I am moving the following unsourced section here. - brenneman 03:01, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
- Meta in Classical Studies
While the preposition meta has been widely used in other academic and non-academic fields, perhaps its greatest modern exponent would be the modern academy and, specifically, the field of Classical studies. Postmodernists of the 90s and the 21st century interested in pushing the boundaries of literary criticism and authorial intent have coined such terms as metanarrative and metapoetics which have long become familiar to scholars in the field. More recently, however, the term has shed its nominal trappings and, with little or no association to the parallel phenomenon evinced in Hofstadter's work, has begun to appear on its own to signify a certain distancing or ambiguity in the perception of reality. (Thus: "This argument is meta" signifies a surreal debate and "He is so meta" is equivalent to "He is so out there").
An encyclopedia should never ask questions to the reader. The answers should be given to the reader, and nothing more. The caption of the license plate picture is "What interpretations can you derive?"
Meta does not mean about
I am Greek and I can assure you that Meta does not mean about. Some might say that Metadata is data about data but this does not mean that meta means about. Meta means after. I am removing the about translation.
- Things do change meaning, but I'm surprised, especially from someone with a background in a classical language, to use "data" as a singular. 126.96.36.199 18:08, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
I've seen chemistry pages mention meta ions many times, but I've never once seen a page on them. Does anyone know where one would be?RSido 00:30, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
Metabolism should be on the list of words that utilize the Greek root 'meta.' Numerous sources can confirm this, including http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/metabolism. Not sure why it was removed in the first place, but considering it is among the most relevant of the list, it certainly deserves mention. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 00:17, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
I've extended the etymology section, and reworded what was there already, to explain how the prefix came to have its modern meaning in English. It is, after all, an interesting story. The use of the term "back-formation" in the original section implies a failure to understand what a back-formation actually is (or at least gave no indication of how it was one). More importantly I removed the following:
Meta- & Meso- are thought to have come into Greek together from a mutual cognate, which would further imply 'meta' to contain or be of the meaning "parallel". 
I think there may be something useful to be said here, but what was written seems very unclear. What, after all, is meant by "mutual cognate" (cogantes are inherently mutual) and how does this imply the meaning "parallel"? Unfortunately, I don't have a copy to hand of Partridge's dictionary. If anyone does, could they please make clear what was meant? Then we could reinstate the above if it's useful to do so. Thanks. garik (talk) 11:21, 3 April 2008 (UTC) modified by garik (talk) 19:42, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Would someone like to tackle the potentially funny but also potentially long winded subject of explaining to whoever added a Citation Needed flag at the end of this section? It's actually kind of amusing. Might even make a good example in and of itself (or would that run the risk the actually ending up with a "citation needed" flag itself?) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 20:53, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
- Agreed. This is the only contribution by M. Oskar van Deventer, and he wrote the paper. Google search reveals very few (ca. 300) results, so the relevance is not high as it is not (at least not yet) a notable term. The previous stand-alone article was flagged as a COI, and a neologism (among others), and speedy deleted on 18 July 2008. I have removed the reference. Cpmartin (talk) 17:14, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
"metadata are data about data"
According to this, it may depend where you live. In the UK, for example, it's still correct to say "Data are":http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutgrammar/data
However, I've lived inthe UK my entire life and I still say "Data is", and the article itself admits that the language is in the process of changing in regards to this, so you might be more correct with "metadata is".
- The term "more correct" isn't very helpful. Both are used frequently, and different people have different preferences. The only relevant question is which of the two options is least likely to look odd. I'd guess that "data is" is now the dominant form, so will look less unusual to the majority of readers. But it really doesn't matter much. As I say, both are used. It's not a matter of "correctness". garik (talk) 10:06, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
I fail to see how "Metapod" is a meta word. It just has "meta" at the beginning. It isn't a pod-within-a-pod, or something that underlies the concept of a pod. It's a sodding pokemon.
question,about the name [meta].
I read in a book ten years ago written by a guy who worked with Nixon doing whitewater ,in his book the name meta was also a biblical term meaning [change,in different,chosen]. have any one else heard this saying???? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 03:08, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
Proposal to include a history of meta/first recorded use of each meta-X.
When was the first recorded meta-concept? The first recorded meta-story? The first recorded meta-film? etc. I think would be a fascinating addition to this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 23:27, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
με λενε σονια
New contemporary usage
It seems to me that there is a new usage of "meta" as its own word that is becoming quite common. "Meta" describes a joke or a concept in a popular art that steps outside the narrative and addresses the audience on a different level or from a different frame. The simplest example is when a character breaks the fourth wall. Or if a dialogue between two characters makes sense to the audience because of knowledge the audience has from outside the story, but would be nonsensical to the characters inside the narrative, it can be referred to as being "meta."
These are sort of off-the-cuff definitions and examples. I'm sure there has been higher-level thought put into this by smarter people than me. But I think that this usage deserves coverage in wikipedia, because I hear it more and more frequently. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:B85B:35F0:21C:B3FF:FEC3:2572 (talk) 19:46, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
Removed "CHANGE" from greek meaining of the word.
"change", was placed in the greek definition. it may be a contemporary usage of meta. But not so in the original greek.