Talk:Michigan Wolverines football

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
WikiProject College football (Rated C-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject College football, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of College football on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Michigan (Rated C-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Michigan, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of Michigan on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
 

No-shutout streak[edit]

I agree that the NCAA record book re the streak (said by NCAA to be 362 at the end of 2012) cannot immediately be squared with the number of games apparently played by Michigan since the 1984 shutout loss to Iowa. But I'm loathe to substitute a hand-counted NCAA record for what the NCAA says the record is. My solution for the moment is to stick literally to the source ("362 games through 2012") rather than mess around with our own counts, or perhaps worse, adding the 13 games of the 2013 season to the (apparently incorrect) NCAA source to produce a figure, 375, that is not only questionable, but also OR. Ideally someone would call this to the NCAA's attention and get them to fix it - or explain where they got the extra games. Meanwhile I'm not comfortable abandoning what would seem to be the single best source on the matter. Any other thoughts? JohnInDC (talk) 14:23, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Guaranteed: if we keep talking about it they will be shutout this season.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 15:54, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
I've changed the figure back to the "official" 362 from the 375 through 2013, that had been in the article for a while before this. It is pretty clear that the NCAA record book is wrong - all one has to do is to tally up the Michigan games played after the Iowa game in 1984 through today to see that. Here's the official Michigan athletic site and all the games for anyone who wants to do it themselves: http://www.mgoblue.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/042109aab.html . As I said, I am uncomfortable substituting a hand-counted OR figure for the official NCAA record, but I'm just about as uncomfortable adding 13 games to a number that is demonstrably wrong, whether we describe the problem as "OR" or just mistaken. I am not tickled by leaving it at 362 through 2012 and citing to the NCAA without comment, but that approach at least has the advantages of 1) being perfectly consistent with the source and 2) at least in the ballpark of correct. If folks think differently, please let's discuss it here. A third option might be to footnote it and note the issue. JohnInDC (talk) 12:27, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
I didn't realize the NCAA record book was in error. So we believe that the actual streak is 364 to date, correct? Jweiss11 (talk) 15:47, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
Yeah, I think. Though for that I'm relying on the IP / new editor who appears to have counted it himself. JohnInDC (talk) 16:25, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
I counted and got 364 as well. Jweiss11 (talk) 17:18, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
What do you think makes sense to do? JohnInDC (talk) 17:28, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
Not sure. I asked User:Paulmcdonald, who recently wrote this essay: Wikipedia:Counting and sorting are not original research, to comment. Jweiss11 (talk) 17:33, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
I'm with JohnInDC, I say go with the hand-counted number, but footnote it to say what the NCAA record book says. — X96lee15 (talk) 20:04, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
Wow, that's interesting! Imagine the NCAA being wrong about something... In this case, I would be sure to note in the article the discrepancy and provide a reference to the counted version. But there's nothing wrong with counting if its reasonable that a person can count -- WP:COUNTSORT.--Paul McDonald (talk) 22:32, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
Yeah, maybe the correct number, annotated, is the way to go. Good to leave a link to the NCAA page in any event, as that is what establishes the BYU (prior) record - JohnInDC (talk) 22:48, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────I just reverted the 364 figure, which cited to a personal website for support. I don't oppose using that number but we need to make it clear what we're doing, and drop a note to the effect that the NCAA is wrong. We also need to make the same point on the "longest scoring streak" page, the name of which escapes me now. Who among us knows how to drop an explanatory footnote? I can't figure it out but if someone will help me out with that, I'll make the edit myself. JohnInDC (talk) 22:45, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

This page: List of most consecutive games scoring in NCAA football. JohnInDC (talk) 01:30, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
Fixed them both. JohnInDC (talk) 01:51, 22 April 2014 (UTC)